David Armitage

[Old Mate]

I think the role is despised because it is perceived as being our major weakness in last year's Grand Final replay.

We went in with McQualter, Eddy, Dempster and Jones, whereas Collingwood had Macaffer, Sidebottom, Beames and Blair.

I couldn't see any of our four ever kick more than 2 goals, whereas those Pies are all capable of 3+

Spot on mate.

Yep and that is why none of those are playing there now. Armo is and since he has been there and Steven in the middle we
have won about 7 of 9 games. Surely winning is more important then Armo playing in the middle of the ground all game or even most of it.

You can't say that there is a direct correlation with that one move and us winning. Put Steven out of the middle and Armo in the middle and it doesn't mean we automatically lose 7 from 9 instead of winning 7 from 9. Seriously dude the whole team has improved and not just because of that one move.

Isn't it obvious that our deficiency is kicking goals? We're a good team however we are not perfect. I would like to see our forwards being more offensive. Too much emphasis on defence imo.

Of course it has no direct correlation but it also hasnt hurt. Id love to know who you would play in that position to magically kick some goals. Surely if there was a person
for that position he would have been played there already. Got any names for me?

Honestly, I doubt we have any other players that could play in the forward line to kick goals. Like I said, too much emphasis on defence.

Siposs, Cripps?
But I agree Armo has shown in the last that he can kick goals but I think players mindset in that position is about defending and not attacking which is so wrong since you need to lol goals to win games and they are the forwards!

The point I was making is that it wouldn't matter who played the role Armo currently is due to the obsession with that particular role being ultra defensive. Siposs is a different type of player - more like Gamble and Lynch - a medium sized forward / third tall.

The comparison I draw from is the successful teams that have their small forwards kicking goals as well as defensive pressure inside 50.

[plugger66]

I think the role is despised because it is perceived as being our major weakness in last year's Grand Final replay.

We went in with McQualter, Eddy, Dempster and Jones, whereas Collingwood had Macaffer, Sidebottom, Beames and Blair.

I couldn't see any of our four ever kick more than 2 goals, whereas those Pies are all capable of 3+

Spot on mate.

Yep and that is why none of those are playing there now. Armo is and since he has been there and Steven in the middle we
have won about 7 of 9 games. Surely winning is more important then Armo playing in the middle of the ground all game or even most of it.

You can't say that there is a direct correlation with that one move and us winning. Put Steven out of the middle and Armo in the middle and it doesn't mean we automatically lose 7 from 9 instead of winning 7 from 9. Seriously dude the whole team has improved and not just because of that one move.

Isn't it obvious that our deficiency is kicking goals? We're a good team however we are not perfect. I would like to see our forwards being more offensive. Too much emphasis on defence imo.

Of course it has no direct correlation but it also hasnt hurt. Id love to know who you would play in that position to magically kick some goals. Surely if there was a person
for that position he would have been played there already. Got any names for me?

Honestly, I doubt we have any other players that could play in the forward line to kick goals. Like I said, too much emphasis on defence.

Siposs, Cripps?
But I agree Armo has shown in the last that he can kick goals but I think players mindset in that position is about defending and not attacking which is so wrong since you need to lol goals to win games and they are the forwards!

The point I was making is that it wouldn't matter who played the role Armo currently is due to the obsession with that particular role being ultra defensive. Siposs is a different type of player - more like Gamble and Lynch - a medium sized forward / third tall.

The comparison I draw from is the successful teams that have their small forwards kicking goals as well as defensive pressure inside 50.

Sorry i must have missed Milne and Schneider over the last few years.

[derby Street]

I think the role is despised because it is perceived as being our major weakness in last year's Grand Final replay.

We went in with McQualter, Eddy, Dempster and Jones, whereas Collingwood had Macaffer, Sidebottom, Beames and Blair.

I couldn't see any of our four ever kick more than 2 goals, whereas those Pies are all capable of 3+

Spot on mate.

Yep and that is why none of those are playing there now. Armo is and since he has been there and Steven in the middle we
have won about 7 of 9 games. Surely winning is more important then Armo playing in the middle of the ground all game or even most of it.

You can't say that there is a direct correlation with that one move and us winning. Put Steven out of the middle and Armo in the middle and it doesn't mean we automatically lose 7 from 9 instead of winning 7 from 9. Seriously dude the whole team has improved and not just because of that one move.

Isn't it obvious that our deficiency is kicking goals? We're a good team however we are not perfect. I would like to see our forwards being more offensive. Too much emphasis on defence imo.

Of course it has no direct correlation but it also hasnt hurt. Id love to know who you would play in that position to magically kick some goals. Surely if there was a person
for that position he would have been played there already. Got any names for me?

Honestly, I doubt we have any other players that could play in the forward line to kick goals. Like I said, too much emphasis on defence.

Siposs, Cripps?
But I agree Armo has shown in the last that he can kick goals but I think players mindset in that position is about defending and not attacking which is so wrong since you need to lol goals to win games and they are the forwards!

The point I was making is that it wouldn't matter who played the role Armo currently is due to the obsession with that particular role being ultra defensive. Siposs is a different type of player - more like Gamble and Lynch - a medium sized forward / third tall.

The comparison I draw from is the successful teams that have their small forwards kicking goals as well as defensive pressure inside 50.

Sorry i must have missed Milne and Schneider over the last few years.

P66 very perceptive of you to pick up that these 2 have kicked many goals and they are indeed small forwards. I wonder what O.M classes them as

[Shaggy]

P66 doesn't seem to appreciate if you play out of position too long you lose form.

Armo is a good player who is currently playing a role he is ordinary at. Ball left us for a similar reason IMO.

[plugger66]

P66 doesn't seem to appreciate if you play out of position too long you lose form.

Armo is a good player who is currently playing a role he is ordinary at. Ball left us for a similar reason IMO.

Didnt Armo play well 2 weeks ago. I appreciate what is good for the team and not just the individual. Jack is better in the middle for the team and Armo is better at HF for the team. Armo still contests many ball ups but just from the wing down to the forward line and not many in the centre square so he is contesting nearly half our ball ups. Nothing wrong with that.

[Mr Magic]

P66 doesn't seem to appreciate if you play out of position too long you lose form.

Armo is a good player who is currently playing a role he is ordinary at. Ball left us for a similar reason IMO.

Hey Shaggy,
nice to see you still read the forum even if you don't post too often!

Whilst you and I don't agree on much I think we do agree that players should always play where they best serve the team.
We might argue/debate where we believe that particular player's best team role is, but I reckon the coaching panel know far more about that than us?

As for your assertion about Armitage, I disagree. I think he is playing that role set for him really well.

Would you prefer he was playing in the middle at Sandringham, unable to get a game at St Kilda because he was behind Jack Steven (and IMO he is behind Jack in that role as a mid)

Instead his game role is changing (has changed) to one where he adds value to the team whilst being selected every week.

[spert]

If we just had another mobile big body at full forward who is also kicking a few goals and assisting in goals (not Kosi, but a genuine full forward), our mids and smalls floating in the forward line would be getting more reward..at the moment these players have to do the body work as well as try and be goal-sneaks and flankers.

[BigMart]

Is there a rule that states that either armo or steven should be in the middle.....cant they both be, 4 are allowed....

I think armitage is a better clearance player than goddard....

And why cant they rotate....across hf and into the middle....like collingwood do???

Armo is not a bad fwd, he can kick a goal, steven is not a bad small fwd either....dal and joey are just good players and could be wonderful across hf...

Goddard can of course play across hb, hf of through the middle....

[Mr Magic]

Is there a rule that states that either armo or steven should be in the middle.....cant they both be, 4 are allowed....

I think armitage is a better clearance player than goddard....

And why cant they rotate....across hf and into the middle....like collingwood do???

Armo is not a bad fwd, he can kick a goal, steven is not a bad small fwd either....dal and joey are just good players and could be wonderful across hf...

Goddard can of course play across hb, hf of through the middle....

As far as I know there's no rule.
As to why the coaching panel play them where they do and Goddard/Dal/Joey/Polo/et al where they do, it would seem to me that they feel it is their best positions/roles for the team.

In the end I'm sure they're making those decisions with purely that motive - what's best for the team.

Some may feel that Armo could be utilized better in another spot - obviously the coaching panel don't agree.

All I know is that plugger is correct - since the switch between Armo and Jack we've been playing much better and winning as a team.
Maybe it's just a co-incidence?

[plugger66]

Is there a rule that states that either armo or steven should be in the middle.....cant they both be, 4 are allowed....

I think armitage is a better clearance player than goddard....

And why cant they rotate....across hf and into the middle....like collingwood do???

Armo is not a bad fwd, he can kick a goal, steven is not a bad small fwd either....dal and joey are just good players and could be wonderful across hf...

Goddard can of course play across hb, hf of through the middle....

He plays on the ball across the wing and forward line. He is very occasionly in the middle but still does plenty of clearance work in other positions. Obviously RL thinks he is more value to be doing the clearance work forward of the centre than the back of the centre. I dont see why we are so fascinated in getting Armo into the middle when we are winning most of the time since he has gone forward.

[DWOODROW]

Maybe Ross Lyon is trying to teach him to run and spread more by playing him at HFF. He has to run around more so maybe thats it.

Either way he's getting a game. Only a couple of months to go anyway.
Pretty amazing when you think of it. Anyone think this year has gone fast?

[Old Mate]

We may be winning games however we're being torched in contested possessions and centre clearances.

[joffaboy]

We may be winning games however we're being torched in contested possessions and centre clearances.

How were we going in clearances when Armo was exclusively in the mids?

As for contested possession, is that now only confined to the midfield?

[Old Mate]

We may be winning games however we're being torched in contested possessions and centre clearances.

How were we going in clearances when Armo was exclusively in the mids?

As for contested possession, is that now only confined to the midfield?

As a team prolly sh1thouse however Armo lead the team in both areas and now Steven is does. I reckon wack them both in the middle for an extended period and see how they go. I dont buy this "it has to be one or the other." Makes me think Armo is injured

regarding your second question check stats and you'll find that mids lead the way in contested possies-Mac, Steven, Dal and Monty (Armo when he was there). This is ciz theres more ball in dispute- got to have your ball winners in the middle.

[plugger66]

We may be winning games however we're being torched in contested possessions and centre clearances.

How were we going in clearances when Armo was exclusively in the mids?

As for contested possession, is that now only confined to the midfield?

As a team prolly sh1thouse however Armo lead the team in both areas and now Steven is does. I reckon wack them both in the middle for an extended period and see how they go. I dont buy this "it has to be one or the other." Makes me think Armo is injured

regarding your second question check stats and you'll find that mids lead the way in contested possies-Mac, Steven, Dal and Monty (Armo when he was there). This is ciz theres more ball in dispute- got to have your ball winners in the middle.

Cant he get clearances when playing forward. There are plenty of bounces and throw ins that Armo is involved in. You dont buy that they cant be in the middle together, i dont buy that it matters if others are doing a better job at centre and back half clearances and Armo is doing well up forward.

[joffaboy]

We may be winning games however we're being torched in contested possessions and centre clearances.

How were we going in clearances when Armo was exclusively in the mids?

As for contested possession, is that now only confined to the midfield?

As a team prolly sh1thouse however Armo lead the team in both areas and now Steven is does. I reckon wack them both in the middle for an extended period and see how they go. I dont buy this "it has to be one or the other." Makes me think Armo is injured

regarding your second question check stats and you'll find that mids lead the way in contested possies-Mac, Steven, Dal and Monty (Armo when he was there).

When Armo was in the mids he was going OK but we won one game in the first 8 rounds.

Our forward pressure was non existent and this was part of the many problems we had.

Jack Steven and to a lesser extent Dean Polo have been doing the job of inside mids and Armo has really stiffened our forward defence with his strong tackling (also Gamble has brought in 2nd and third efforts).

I really believe this setup has also brought Dal Santo and even peake into the game much more and generally has been a big reason we are 8-2 from the past ten games.

I am not a subscriber to this "he is being ruined" BS (not saying you said that). Armo needs to be able to get clear at the clearances. he isn't slow but far from quick and get caught with it too much ATM. Jack is marginally quicker and is extracting it a bit better.

Armo is a long term mid and will be our Lenny going forward (Jack is like our Burkey). With mentoring from Lenny and as Armo matures he will find ways to get clear even without the explosive pace.

When RL decides its time for him to go back to the mids he will get a go.

I remember Schneider expressing that he wanted more time in the midfield. After three years at the Saints he is still a forward because he hasn't shown enough.

i have faith in our coaching staff to know the best setup. Armo will come back to the mids a far better player. Also with experience up forward and with Lenny back next year, he may well get games ahead of Steven and Polo because of his versatility.


Armo, as P66 said contests the stoppages forward of centre.

[To the top]

I agree that the defensive side of Milne and Schnieder has improved over the past couple of seasons.

But, neither of them is quick.

Similarly, Armitage playing forward does not bring pace to our forward structure - although he does run straight lines at the player with the ball and crunches when he gets them, causing spillage opportunities.

Riewoldt is our best chase defender.

This is the reason Peake is also being used forward of late - and jagging some goals to boot.

In regards Armitage, he had bandaging on his leg, looked sore and was played accordingly.

I do not know what game time he got, but it did not appear to be much from the naked eye.

[Old Mate]

I stand by my comment thay Armo was our best clearance player at start of the season if fit he should be there more than he is. Sounds like hes a bit lame atm. May need a rest

[joffaboy]

I stand by my comment thay Armo was our best clearance player at start of the season if fit he should be there more than he is. Sounds like hes a bit lame atm. May need a rest

Who is saying he wasn't?

However we weren't winning a thing and we were getting thumped in clearances (as well as everythign else).

Facts are that since Armo has been up forward we have been winning.

Unless Armo is not the type of bloke I think he is, he would rather be up forward in a winning team, than in the mids in a team getting done every week.

DWOODROW said he got a corkie against Adelaide.

[Old Mate]

Not arguing just deliberating a couple of minor facts

I reckon us losing at the beginning of the season has more to do with Goddard, Roo, Monty out of form then Armo not being in the forward line/out of the middle for Steven

Not to mention Peake who got us going when we were crying out for someone

I feel Armo being wasted as a defensive forward. Surely someone else could be used in that role freeing him up to rotate through the midfield more

[plugger66]

Not arguing just deliberating a couple of minor facts

I reckon us losing at the beginning of the season has more to do with Goddard, Roo, Monty out of form then Armo not being in the forward line/out of the middle for Steven

Not to mention Peake who got us going when we were crying out for someone

I feel Armo being wasted as a defensive forward. Surely someone else could be used in that role freeing him up to rotate through the midfield more

Of course the form of BJ and Joey has helped but also the clear clearances of Jack and the pressure up forward of Armo has helped. Armo was getting clearances but due to his lack of pace those clearances resulted in another ball up quite often. Steven has more pace and seems to clear the ball from pack siuations. Armo is doing a great job up forward. Love you to nama player who would do an equal job.

[Thinline]

Not arguing just deliberating a couple of minor facts

I reckon us losing at the beginning of the season has more to do with Goddard, Roo, Monty out of form then Armo not being in the forward line/out of the middle for Steven

Not to mention Peake who got us going when we were crying out for someone

I feel Armo being wasted as a defensive forward. Surely someone else could be used in that role freeing him up to rotate through the midfield more

Of course the form of BJ and Joey has helped but also the clear clearances of Jack and the pressure up forward of Armo has helped. Armo was getting clearances but due to his lack of pace those clearances resulted in another ball up quite often. Steven has more pace and seems to clear the ball from pack siuations. Armo is doing a great job up forward. Love you to nama player who would do an equal job.

Armo's going fine. I reckon the increase in output from Polo and Gamble both on and off the ball has helped the overall balance immensely as well.

[stinger]

Armo's going fine. I reckon the increase in output from Polo and Gamble both on and off the ball has helped the overall balance immensely as well.

i think you have put your finger on the real change in output.....

[dcstkfc]

I agree that the defensive side of Milne and Schnieder has improved over the past couple of seasons.

But, neither of them is quick.

Similarly, Armitage playing forward does not bring pace to our forward structure - although he does run straight lines at the player with the ball and crunches when he gets them, causing spillage opportunities.

Riewoldt is our best chase defender.

This is the reason Peake is also being used forward of late - and jagging some goals to boot.

In regards Armitage, he had bandaging on his leg, looked sore and was played accordingly.

I do not know what game time he got, but it did not appear to be much from the naked eye.

Great post, very perceptive of you with respect to Peake, hadn't appreciated it but when I think about it Peakey's pressure inside the arc has been very good.