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plugger66 wrote:Well that maybe the reason Peake and Drain arent there anymore. They may have worked it out inside the club.
I reckon that and more.
I reckon there is a guy who is an absolute bloody hero but you never see his name mentioned on here.
Who saw the coaches' box and club from the inside, spent two years arming himself with the culture and leadership knowledge needed to improve the place, and threw his hat in the ring when the opportunity presented.
I don't believe for a minute that the mistakes made over the last decade-plus have been forgotten or ignored with this guy on our team.
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
BigMart wrote:Why cant we judge recruiting in hindsight....isnt that the only way to judge it....
You certainly can (and frequently do) but it's pretty meaningless simply because we can't change it. Give us the top forty in order for the next draft, then in five years you can hang your hat on it, and probably land a highly paid job.
Isn't this the definition of this forum? Discussing meaningless s*** we can't change?
Still, beats watching Masterchef or having to talk to your wife
plugger66 wrote:Well that maybe the reason Peake and Drain arent there anymore. They may have worked it out inside the club.
I reckon that and more.
I reckon there is a guy who is an absolute bloody hero but you never see his name mentioned on here.
Who saw the coaches' box and club from the inside, spent two years arming himself with the culture and leadership knowledge needed to improve the place, and threw his hat in the ring when the opportunity presented.
I don't believe for a minute that the mistakes made over the last decade-plus have been forgotten or ignored with this guy on our team.
WinnersOnly wrote:Could ‘ve – Should’ve – But Didn’t = has cost the SAINTS dearly !
I thought I would go through the process of looking at the SAINTS drafting and list management over the past 5 years and to be honest it is nothing short of abysmal! The more you look at it the more embarrassing it becomes – I can’t believe how the people involved in these decisions are still at the club?
2006 National Draft
#9 David Armitage St Kilda = 45 games 25 goals
#10 Nathan Brown Collingwood = 50 games KPP GF winning team
#12 James Frawley Melbourne = 77 games KPP All Aus selection
#13 Jack Riewoldt = 85 games 185 goals Coleman Medal winner
#27 Brad Howard St Kilda = 2 games
#28 Chris DAWES Collingwood = 43 games GF winning FF
#29 Eric McKenzie WCE = 50 games KPP backmen
#37 Todd Goldstein NM = 54 games exceptional ruckman
2006 Rookie Draft
#9 Clint Jones St Kilda = 91 games (good selection)
#25 Luke Van Rheenen St Kilda = 0 games no longer on list
#26 Brent McCaffer Collingwood = 30 games still on senior list
#27 Jarrod Harbrow GCS = 87 games & attracted WB good trade selections
NOTE: From a list management perspective we were looking for midfielders and obviously overlooked some excellent KPP talent in the national draft. The poor list management continues…
Poor draft!
2007 National Draft
#9 Ben McEvoy Stkilda = 47 games developing ruckman
#10 Patrick Dangerfield Adelaide = 59 games 70 goals Rising Star
#12 Cyril Rioli Hawthorn = 76 games 90 goals
#42 Jack Steven St Kilda = 24 games (good selection)
#70 Eljay Connors St Kilda = 0 games (wasted senior list position)
2007 Rookie Draft
#8 Glen CHIVERS St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#24 Luke Miles St Kilda = 2 games delisted
#25 Jared Petrenko Adelaide = 30 games still small forward
#40 Ed Curnow Carlton = 12 games still on list
NOTE: From a list management perspective again we overlooked best available to fill our needs and took McEvoy at #9. I would have taken Dangerfield or Rioli at #9 and got a ruckman with a later pick. McEvoy will be good but will he ever be the value of a goal kicking mid I very much doubt it.
Average daft!
2008 National Draft
#13 Tom LYNCH St Kilda = 5 games
#18 Luke Shuey WCE = 23 games this year’s Rising Star.
#29 Dayne Beams Collingwood = 52 games 52 goals & GF player
#74 Paul CAHILL St Kilda = 0 games likely to be delisted.
#75 Shane Savage Hawthorn = 18 games hard at it forward.
2008 Rookie Draft
#13 Zac Dawson St Kilda = 76 games (Brown or McKenzie ?)
#29 Tom Simpkin St Kilda = 2 games still developing
#58 Steven Gaertner St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#69 Lachlan Keeffe Collingwood = 4 games developing tall forward
#71 Ross Tungatulum St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#81 Matt Suckling Hawthorn = 21 games (elite kicking skills)
NOTE: From a list management perspective why didn’t the Saints look at McKenzie or the Brown twins the previous year. Tom Lynch will never be the player Shuey or Beams have already become.
Poor draft!
2009 National Draft = it still hurts!
#16 Andrew Lovett St Kilda = 0 games (trade cost approx 500k)
#20 Nathan Fyfe Freo = 35 games (next superstar from west)
#21 Ryan Bastinac NM = 30 games (highly valued mid)
#30 Luke Ball Collingwood = 183 games (44 Collingwood) St Kilda club champion – GF player (disgraceful loss)
#32 Nicholas Winmar St Kilda = 2 games (developing)
#38 Sam Reid Swans = 18 games 15 goals KPP forward
#42 Nathan Vardy = 8 games developing ruckman/forward
2009 Rookie Draft
#20 Mark Hutchins St Kilda = 0 games delisted
#24 Alex Silvagni Freo = 20 games KPP player was in our own back yard yet over looked.
NOTE: SAINTS of old looking for the quick fix and trading for other clubs duds! We were screaming out for speed but they simply over looked far too much quality again attempting to fill needs rather than drafting best available.
Extremely Poor draft!
2010 National Draft
#24 Jamie Cripps St Kilda = 4 games (will be ok)
#26 Jack Darling WCE = 17 games 15 goals superstar missed!
#45 Sam Crocker St Kilda = 0 games (small developing mid)
#47 Alex FASOLO Collingwood = 6 games 9 goals readymade mid.
2010 Rookie Draft
#24 Tom Curren St Kilda = 0 games
#37 Nick Lower Freo = 16 games
#41 Warwick Andreoli St Kilda = 0 games
#51 Wayde Twomey Carlton = 2 games
NOTE: Once again RL convinces the recruiters to draft on a needs basis rather than going for best available talent. Missing Nathan Fyfe and Jack Darling in consecutive years is a huge loss and would have made a significant difference to our forward line set ups.
Average draft!
RL has obvioulsy now acknowledged the clubs extremely poor drafting record - however we have to ask ourselves who is to blame for the above decisions Recruiters or Coach?
This is very impressive and you argue a good case.
But I would argue that every club has had failed drafts and trades.
Look at Essendon getting Mark "Shotgun" Williams from Hawthorn. 4 games and his career's over.
Have a look at Richmond's recent recruiting.
In honour of those who went before, in the dark and desperate years.
BigMart wrote:Not getting cuz was a correct decision......so a couple of better informed folk told me at the time....and even after hindsight has proved them wrong, they are still right....arguing, even when they surely know they're wrong, just to make themselves feel a little bit better about an opportunity obviously lost.....it must f*** with their heads
No goose it F**Ks with your head that people have the temerity to not agree with your arrogant opinion you dress up as facts.
Cousins was a shadow of the player he was at WCE at Richmond, and according to some very trustworthy people i know, when Cousins met our club for talks he was juiced, still taking illegal drugs and still dodging AFL drug tests (shaving his whole body down).
It was totally the correct decision not to recruit him, also considering we had Gardiner at the club and the press would have had a field day.
But some people dont take that into consideration and dont understand the facts of the matter, but hey that never has stopped you and your endless campaign of opinion dressed up as fact
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Im not gonna waste my time creating a list for you....
If you really want, head over to bigfooty, ask which club has the best under 23's
Within 10 mins youll have your list.....we will sit pretty low, rightfully
Not sure other supporters would even know nick heyne, cahill and co
Bigfooty is a hellhole, but you learn a bit about opposition players....
Eothrr that, or as i said
Flick o the tellie
This is the thing, why do you need to make a list, making a statement that we have pretty much the worst in the league I would have thought you had one.
Heading over to chat to 14 year olds won't help things...
BigMart wrote:Not getting cuz was a correct decision......so a couple of better informed folk told me at the time....and even after hindsight has proved them wrong, they are still right....arguing, even when they surely know they're wrong, just to make themselves feel a little bit better about an opportunity obviously lost.....it must f*** with their heads
Cousins was a shadow of the player he was at WCE at Richmond, and according to some very trustworthy people i know, when Cousins met our club for talks he was juiced, still taking illegal drugs and still dodging AFL drug tests (shaving his whole body down).
You only have to read his book and watch his doco to find that out
BigMart wrote:Not getting cuz was a correct decision......so a couple of better informed folk told me at the time....and even after hindsight has proved them wrong, they are still right....arguing, even when they surely know they're wrong, just to make themselves feel a little bit better about an opportunity obviously lost.....it must f*** with their heads
Cousins was a shadow of the player he was at WCE at Richmond, and according to some very trustworthy people i know, when Cousins met our club for talks he was juiced, still taking illegal drugs and still dodging AFL drug tests (shaving his whole body down).
You only have to read his book and watch his doco to find that out
Richmond were in a far better position to take a risk than we were.
Apart from the risks he wasn't clean we would have had to cart his media circus around all year. Not such a big deal for a team unable to make the finals but a potential distraction for our team.
If we got it so wrong, why didn't the other 14 teams (or call it 13 because we'll omit WCE) fight Richmond for his services? Wasn't he the last guy picked?
Maybe we should just poach/go after recruiters who have established a good track record of recruiting over several years.
.. and we should always recruit players (comparing like for like midfielders with midfielders, KPP with other KPP players) according to some criteria - which produces a score for each player.
Maybe something like - (I know this is a crude example)
(Leg Speed + Kicking Skills including length of kicking + Attack of the Ball + Evasiveness) x (multiplied by) ability to rack up possessions.
Using a score out of 10 for each criteria - Judd would probably rate a (9+9+10+9)x10 = 370 out of 400 points.
Dal Santo (8+10+8+10)x10 = 360 points
Armitage (7 + 7 + 10 + 7) x 7 = 217 points.
etc..
To compare KPP's there may need to be a contested marking criterion too etc..
The criteria would be a final check to make sure the recruiter hasn't overlooked something important - it's a rough metric but may serve to keep the process honest. and objective.
WinnersOnly wrote:RL has obvioulsy now acknowledged the clubs extremely poor drafting record - however we have to ask ourselves who is to blame for the above decisions Recruiters or Coach?
Yes, this could really come back to haunt us in the future. The last thing we want is to end up in a situation like Port Adelaide have found themselves in. But heck, at least they got a flag out of it
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
