But because of injury he was never going to be a good player. His old man was CEO.matrix wrote:fergus
gun
kicked ten once in an sanfl game and the old man knew someone at the club (??)
but alas injury cut him down in his prime
didnt get spaded
was shoveled
Could ‘ve – Should’ve – But Didn’t = has cost the
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InkerSaint
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Incredible.
Page two and no-one wants to point out the elephant in the room.
That we were second bottom of all clubs in spending on recruitment, and half a million less than Collingwood in 2006, and the guy who set the budget was only ousted at the end of 2007.
That the Club’s total staff numbers had dropped to the lowest staff numbers in the AFL.
That the 2006 Grand finalists spent $2.6M and $2.4M more in their footy departments than the Saints.
That we were last in the AFL in the number of footy department staff, and had 16 and 17 fewer staff respectively in our footy department, than the two Grand Finalists in 2006, and 20 footy department staff fewer than the Brisbane Lions.
And people wonder why the club struggled to get ahead of the game in recruiting?
PS. Pop quiz. How long had Lyon been incumbent at the time of the 2006 draft?
Page two and no-one wants to point out the elephant in the room.
That we were second bottom of all clubs in spending on recruitment, and half a million less than Collingwood in 2006, and the guy who set the budget was only ousted at the end of 2007.
That the Club’s total staff numbers had dropped to the lowest staff numbers in the AFL.
That the 2006 Grand finalists spent $2.6M and $2.4M more in their footy departments than the Saints.
That we were last in the AFL in the number of footy department staff, and had 16 and 17 fewer staff respectively in our footy department, than the two Grand Finalists in 2006, and 20 footy department staff fewer than the Brisbane Lions.
And people wonder why the club struggled to get ahead of the game in recruiting?
PS. Pop quiz. How long had Lyon been incumbent at the time of the 2006 draft?
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
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SaintPav
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I am ashamed to have you as son. You are a stupid person. Say hi to your mum from me.Cairnsman wrote:I marvel at your football knowledge. Where do you find the time to learn fishing.SaintPav wrote:Jimmy Gwilt should have played in the 2009 GF. Dempster should have gone with Chapman all day and Sam Fisher should have played in the forward line in the second half to break the Mackie tag and kick a goal or two given that Roo was struggling.
I reckon Mackie would have gone with Fish. Jimmy should have played instead of Mini.
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MCG-Unit
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He is still working on compiling a list of who are the '15 duds on the list'SaintPav wrote:I am ashamed to have you as son. You are a stupid person. Say hi to your mum from me.Cairnsman wrote:I marvel at your football knowledge. Where do you find the time to learn fishing.SaintPav wrote:Jimmy Gwilt should have played in the 2009 GF. Dempster should have gone with Chapman all day and Sam Fisher should have played in the forward line in the second half to break the Mackie tag and kick a goal or two given that Roo was struggling.
I reckon Mackie would have gone with Fish. Jimmy should have played instead of Mini.
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InkerSaint
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Re: Could ‘ve – Should’ve – But Didn’t = has cost
If you say so.WinnersOnly wrote:Average daft!
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
Curnow was drafted by Adelaide in 2007, delisted after two years and picked up by Carlton from the VFL last year. Keeffe was a NSW scholarship pick and never open to any club but Verminwood.
And of course by now you've probably forgotten all the questions over the other players' heads on draft day. Was Jack Riewoldt tall enough? Was he a one trick pony? Was Frawley mk II quick enough? Would Dawes recover from his injury? Does Rioli have the drive to play AFL? Does he have the fitness? Would Beams leg it to GC after two years?
Even if we had've drafted these players there's no guarantee they would've turned out the way they have. All in all, pointless thread
And of course by now you've probably forgotten all the questions over the other players' heads on draft day. Was Jack Riewoldt tall enough? Was he a one trick pony? Was Frawley mk II quick enough? Would Dawes recover from his injury? Does Rioli have the drive to play AFL? Does he have the fitness? Would Beams leg it to GC after two years?
Even if we had've drafted these players there's no guarantee they would've turned out the way they have. All in all, pointless thread
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SaintPav
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Classic Cairnsman.MCG-Unit wrote:Probably about the same stage as wanting to trade Riewoldt and Goddard (and maybe Armitage) to the G Coast - to 'load up for 2012'
Wonder what his next master stroke will be? Probably wants the club to move to Cairns.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Why cant we judge recruiting in hindsight....isnt that the only way to judge it....
A dangerous post, as some will post critisism of you, just for being critical...regardless of the facts that you have outlined....these people defend our great club, regardless of a history littered with screw ups....none bigger than the 09 debarcle, which was highlighted at the time..not in hindsight
07 i would say was a successful draft
You want an a grader with your first pick, i think we will get that and we got a potential a grader at 42.....schnieder and dempster at 26 are important players and will play 100 games plus each.
06 was of course missed opportunities
Jack Riewldt #13 was being overlooked by most stupid clubs because of percieved lack of athletisism and size to be a KPP....... Most in the know in tassie (hamish ogilvie) rated him one of the best pure football talents he had ever seen. Frawley #12 was a blue chip pick
Everitt #11 turned out similar output to Armo #9
Brown at #10 was another blue chip
Howard....was a howler
08 and 10 are hard to measure atm
Rookie selections are real hit and miss stuff......silvagni was obviously a miss, but i see why they overlooked him
Jack Darling.....not just by us....but an absolute howler by anotheqr 17 clubs....clearly a top ten going into the draft, pushing top 5..... On pure ability....for him to fall into wce lap left them laughing all the way to the bank......a monster of a boy, who can seriously play, and works his arse off at training and on the ground
As most on here know, i take an interest in the draft....
Without having facts and evidence.....i do list a group of kids i would love for us to get pre draft....the other day i took a look....
It was interesting.....some real flops, but a few hits....no different to anyone i suppose
Swallow, grundy a couple of note
Ben Eckermann, brett robinson, not so noteworthy
A dangerous post, as some will post critisism of you, just for being critical...regardless of the facts that you have outlined....these people defend our great club, regardless of a history littered with screw ups....none bigger than the 09 debarcle, which was highlighted at the time..not in hindsight
07 i would say was a successful draft
You want an a grader with your first pick, i think we will get that and we got a potential a grader at 42.....schnieder and dempster at 26 are important players and will play 100 games plus each.
06 was of course missed opportunities
Jack Riewldt #13 was being overlooked by most stupid clubs because of percieved lack of athletisism and size to be a KPP....... Most in the know in tassie (hamish ogilvie) rated him one of the best pure football talents he had ever seen. Frawley #12 was a blue chip pick
Everitt #11 turned out similar output to Armo #9
Brown at #10 was another blue chip
Howard....was a howler
08 and 10 are hard to measure atm
Rookie selections are real hit and miss stuff......silvagni was obviously a miss, but i see why they overlooked him
Jack Darling.....not just by us....but an absolute howler by anotheqr 17 clubs....clearly a top ten going into the draft, pushing top 5..... On pure ability....for him to fall into wce lap left them laughing all the way to the bank......a monster of a boy, who can seriously play, and works his arse off at training and on the ground
As most on here know, i take an interest in the draft....
Without having facts and evidence.....i do list a group of kids i would love for us to get pre draft....the other day i took a look....
It was interesting.....some real flops, but a few hits....no different to anyone i suppose
Swallow, grundy a couple of note
Ben Eckermann, brett robinson, not so noteworthy
And these players on your list you saw play live in how many games? You dont get many things do you? This thread could be transplanted to every clubs footy forum with all the players they have missed out on. It happens to every club and it will continue to happen in hindsight to every club.BigMart wrote:Why cant we judge recruiting in hindsight....isnt that the only way to judge it....
A dangerous post, as some will post critisism of you, just for being critical...regardless of the facts that you have outlined....these people defend our great club, regardless of a history littered with screw ups....none bigger than the 09 debarcle, which was highlighted at the time..not in hindsight
07 i would say was a successful draft
You want an a grader with your first pick, i think we will get that and we got a potential a grader at 42.....schnieder and dempster at 26 are important players and will play 100 games plus each.
06 was of course missed opportunities
Jack Riewldt #13 was being overlooked by most stupid clubs because of percieved lack of athletisism and size to be a KPP....... Most in the know in tassie (hamish ogilvie) rated him one of the best pure football talents he had ever seen. Frawley #12 was a blue chip pick
Everitt #11 turned out similar output to Armo #9
Brown at #10 was another blue chip
Howard....was a howler
08 and 10 are hard to measure atm
Rookie selections are real hit and miss stuff......silvagni was obviously a miss, but i see why they overlooked him
Jack Darling.....not just by us....but an absolute howler by anotheqr 17 clubs....clearly a top ten going into the draft, pushing top 5..... On pure ability....for him to fall into wce lap left them laughing all the way to the bank......a monster of a boy, who can seriously play, and works his arse off at training and on the ground
As most on here know, i take an interest in the draft....
Without having facts and evidence.....i do list a group of kids i would love for us to get pre draft....the other day i took a look....
It was interesting.....some real flops, but a few hits....no different to anyone i suppose
Swallow, grundy a couple of note
Ben Eckermann, brett robinson, not so noteworthy
Again how many of the players on your list did you see play? Funny that when given the opportunity last year to give us a list of players you would take in the draft that you went awfully quiet and we never heard from you. I suppose when you recruit in hindsight that will happen every year.
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satchmo
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You certainly can (and frequently do) but it's pretty meaningless simply because we can't change it. Give us the top forty in order for the next draft, then in five years you can hang your hat on it, and probably land a highly paid job.BigMart wrote:Why cant we judge recruiting in hindsight....isnt that the only way to judge it....
*Allegedly.
Bring back Lucky Burgers, and nobody gets hurt.
You can't un-fry things.
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Bring back Lucky Burgers, and nobody gets hurt.
You can't un-fry things.
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Darling would be great about now. A ready made power forward to help out Roo. However I think we drafted well last year. We really lacked pace and skill. The kids from that draft we acquired will fill those voids. Siposs late in the draft will end up being a bargain...unless he's turned into a defensive HFF. I don't think the kid can help him self to be offensive though. love his style.
Obviously d**khead...you can do this with every club....
And some clubs have done better or worse than us.....on draft success.....
Saying that, we would have amongst least amount of under 23 talent in the AFL.....
Is that fair comment???
On that EVIDENCE alone, we have not drafted with a great deal of success....
Every reasonably informed footy supporter would agree upon that, only an antagonist knob who is a staunch defender of any decision made by the administration
Really
Anyway.....try to see the irony of this
You are able to point out that people are not allowed to make comment or critisise who are ill informed and dont have all the facts
But you
Are allowed to dismiss their claims, even though your equally ill informed...And dont have all the facts
All in the while, you dont actually know whether the persons do understand a few things......just believe things differently to you
And some clubs have done better or worse than us.....on draft success.....
Saying that, we would have amongst least amount of under 23 talent in the AFL.....
Is that fair comment???
On that EVIDENCE alone, we have not drafted with a great deal of success....
Every reasonably informed footy supporter would agree upon that, only an antagonist knob who is a staunch defender of any decision made by the administration
Really
Anyway.....try to see the irony of this
You are able to point out that people are not allowed to make comment or critisise who are ill informed and dont have all the facts
But you
Are allowed to dismiss their claims, even though your equally ill informed...And dont have all the facts
All in the while, you dont actually know whether the persons do understand a few things......just believe things differently to you
d**khead. Very good. Our recruiting hasnt been as good as a few clubs but you can only really compare us to Geelong, WB and maybe the pies because of our position on the ladder. Geelong seem to have done well but it takes more than one or two years to work out if guys will end up as stars or not. Anyone can have an opinion and like anyone I can dismiss their opinion as crap. I am sure you do to me.BigMart wrote:Obviously d**khead...you can do this with every club....
And some clubs have done better or worse than us.....on draft success.....
Saying that, we would have amongst least amount of under 23 talent in the AFL.....
Is that fair comment???
On that EVIDENCE alone, we have not drafted with a great deal of success....
Every reasonably informed footy supporter would agree upon that, only an antagonist knob who is a staunch defender of any decision made by the administration
Really
Anyway.....try to see the irony of this
You are able to point out that people are not allowed to make comment or critisise who are ill informed and dont have all the facts
But you
Are allowed to dismiss their claims, even though your equally ill informed...And dont have all the facts
All in the while, you dont actually know whether the persons do understand a few things......just believe things differently to you
I did notice you again took no notice of the question asked. Totally predicable.
Not getting cuz was a correct decision......so a couple of better informed folk told me at the time....and even after hindsight has proved them wrong, they are still right....arguing, even when they surely know they're wrong, just to make themselves feel a little bit better about an opportunity obviously lost.....it must f*** with their heads
P66
About 1 in 5..... But hey, sweeney was drafted on reports...as were a few others.....this i know, from the person in charge of the joint a while ago...
There is enough stats, reports, info, footage out the now, to form some opinion on players....and you may occasionally know someone who has played with or against such and such.....and i have come across that, generally in cricket circles....which is my sport....esp kids who played in the mpnfl and ddjfl
In saying that
I have been to number of championships....as they are often around my holidays... And i get bored (not so much now, i have two little ones) , but definitely 2000-2009
I have seen a few kids run around at the stingrays, as they are in my zone and i sometimes get invited to watch a kid i know play there.....
My cousin has played 200 games for the burnie dockers and played for the mariners in the TAC cup and VFL for the devils.... He often spoke to me about many tassie kids drafted.....and a couple of interstaters he has played on whilst playing for tassie....he's a great player, not quick enough for afl, but made the ntfl best team since its inception and has one 6 medals in tassie....so i respect his knowledge
Other opinions are just that....like any recruiting wannabe fan, i read the forums and have fun putting together a wish list
Is that OK
Watching dandy stingrays
Which is how i saw goddard play for the first time....when he amasses 41 poss in 2002 vs dandenong stingrays
P66
About 1 in 5..... But hey, sweeney was drafted on reports...as were a few others.....this i know, from the person in charge of the joint a while ago...
There is enough stats, reports, info, footage out the now, to form some opinion on players....and you may occasionally know someone who has played with or against such and such.....and i have come across that, generally in cricket circles....which is my sport....esp kids who played in the mpnfl and ddjfl
In saying that
I have been to number of championships....as they are often around my holidays... And i get bored (not so much now, i have two little ones) , but definitely 2000-2009
I have seen a few kids run around at the stingrays, as they are in my zone and i sometimes get invited to watch a kid i know play there.....
My cousin has played 200 games for the burnie dockers and played for the mariners in the TAC cup and VFL for the devils.... He often spoke to me about many tassie kids drafted.....and a couple of interstaters he has played on whilst playing for tassie....he's a great player, not quick enough for afl, but made the ntfl best team since its inception and has one 6 medals in tassie....so i respect his knowledge
Other opinions are just that....like any recruiting wannabe fan, i read the forums and have fun putting together a wish list
Is that OK
Watching dandy stingrays
Which is how i saw goddard play for the first time....when he amasses 41 poss in 2002 vs dandenong stingrays
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Stephen Theodore
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That is fine. You have seen a few play but lets face it that isnt much compared to FT recruiters and the PT ones as well. But last year even after the draft I gave you the chance to tell us the ones we missed out on and you didnt once give an opinion. Now i think you have mentioned Darling as a mistake. Well at the moment it looks like it but that is surely hindsight by you because you didnt tell us that in December last year.BigMart wrote:Not getting cuz was a correct decision......so a couple of better informed folk told me at the time....and even after hindsight has proved them wrong, they are still right....arguing, even when they surely know they're wrong, just to make themselves feel a little bit better about an opportunity obviously lost.....it must f*** with their heads
P66
About 1 in 5..... But hey, sweeney was drafted on reports...as were a few others.....this i know, from the person in charge of the joint a while ago...
There is enough stats, reports, info, footage out the now, to form some opinion on players....and you may occasionally know someone who has played with or against such and such.....and i have come across that, generally in cricket circles....which is my sport....esp kids who played in the mpnfl and ddjfl
In saying that
I have been to number of championships....as they are often around my holidays... And i get bored (not so much now, i have two little ones) , but definitely 2000-2009
I have seen a few kids run around at the stingrays, as they are in my zone and i sometimes get invited to watch a kid i know play there.....
My cousin has played 200 games for the burnie dockers and played for the mariners in the TAC cup and VFL for the devils.... He often spoke to me about many tassie kids drafted.....and a couple of interstaters he has played on whilst playing for tassie....he's a great player, not quick enough for afl, but made the ntfl best team since its inception and has one 6 medals in tassie....so i respect his knowledge
Other opinions are just that....like any recruiting wannabe fan, i read the forums and have fun putting together a wish list
Is that OK
Watching dandy stingrays
Which is how i saw goddard play for the first time....when he amasses 41 poss in 2002 vs dandenong stingrays
And if you see so much footy and hear things why not tell the club. I did last year about a certain player. I rang John Beveridge and he said he would have a look out for him.
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InkerSaint
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I disagree that we should have taken Jack Darling - for one, we couldn't afford another draft pick blowing up - and there's no guarantee he wouldn't have done that at the Saints. Remember, WA is where his "support network" is.
However I don't think anyone disagrees that our drafting prior to last year has been average-to-poor, with a couple of well-documented disasters.
As for the purpose of these threads - or perhaps the "agenda" - if it isn't to identify where the "fault/blame" lies, what is it?
Presumably there are "villains" laying low at the club in need of exposure? Somewhere for the buck to stop?
However I don't think anyone disagrees that our drafting prior to last year has been average-to-poor, with a couple of well-documented disasters.
As for the purpose of these threads - or perhaps the "agenda" - if it isn't to identify where the "fault/blame" lies, what is it?
Presumably there are "villains" laying low at the club in need of exposure? Somewhere for the buck to stop?
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
Well that maybe the reason Peake and Drain arent there anymore. They may have worked it out inside the club.InkerSaint wrote:I disagree that we should have taken Jack Darling - for one, we couldn't afford another draft pick blowing up - and there's no guarantee he wouldn't have done that at the Saints. Remember, WA is where his "support network" is.
However I don't think anyone disagrees that our drafting prior to last year has been average-to-poor, with a couple of well-documented disasters.
As for the purpose of these threads - or perhaps the "agenda" - if it isn't to identify where the "fault/blame" lies, what is it?
Presumably there are "villains" laying low at the club in need of exposure? Somewhere for the buck to stop?
Darling was the obvious overlook....but as i said, not just by us...his credentials were well known by all an sundry, even the year before....Not taken for reasons that recruiters will rethink in the future, because he is obviously a big miss by all....
Not sure cripps was a complete mistake, but somewhat of a surprise, but not completely unknown.....many afl recruiters rated him highly.
Cripps seems to be a player of sorts...hard to judge, injured during a lot of games, and he seemed to lack confidence...one thing i have noticed is he is not lenny hayesbwith his attack on it...
He was an outstanding runner during the pre season....and his kicking skills are meant to be good, but the two vfl games i watdhed him, his kicking was poor...
But time to tell.... One thing im pretty sure....jack will have him, and plenty of first rounders covered....
Not sure cripps was a complete mistake, but somewhat of a surprise, but not completely unknown.....many afl recruiters rated him highly.
Cripps seems to be a player of sorts...hard to judge, injured during a lot of games, and he seemed to lack confidence...one thing i have noticed is he is not lenny hayesbwith his attack on it...
He was an outstanding runner during the pre season....and his kicking skills are meant to be good, but the two vfl games i watdhed him, his kicking was poor...
But time to tell.... One thing im pretty sure....jack will have him, and plenty of first rounders covered....