Saints Announcement: Off-field Acquisition

[stkildathunda]

Chris Pelchen is the best out there at long term strategic plans and no doubt thats why he has been brought into the club...

But when you bring in a coach, they have a plan. That's why they get hired.

They present their plan for the future, their plan for the list, the way they believe footy should be played, and so on.

It's their vision that they bring to the club. It's their vision, and their job to make it happen.

It must be the ultimate in professional insults for a bloke who's never coached or played to be put ahead of him and instruct him where to take the team.


And if it's not a direct line of report - then what's the point of it?


If he knows his stuff, then sure get him to the club - but I'd have him reporting to the head coach.

If the club don't like the coach's style or vision - then get rid of him. Get someone else.

Its only really Hutchy reporting that he is Ross's boss though isnt it?

This "Head Of Football" is such a new job title that every club is getting onto, so who really knows what it actually entails.

Surely Ross has OK'd this new appointment and is happy with it, for all we know it was his idea as he wants a new perspective on everything going forward.

[Johnny Member]

Chris Pelchen is the best out there at long term strategic plans and no doubt thats why he has been brought into the club...

But when you bring in a coach, they have a plan. That's why they get hired.

They present their plan for the future, their plan for the list, the way they believe footy should be played, and so on.

It's their vision that they bring to the club. It's their vision, and their job to make it happen.

It must be the ultimate in professional insults for a bloke who's never coached or played to be put ahead of him and instruct him where to take the team.


And if it's not a direct line of report - then what's the point of it?


If he knows his stuff, then sure get him to the club - but I'd have him reporting to the head coach.

If the club don't like the coach's style or vision - then get rid of him. Get someone else.

Its only really Hutchy reporting that he is Ross's boss though isnt it?

This "Head Of Football" is such a new job title that every club is getting onto, so who really knows what it actually entails.

Surely Ross has OK'd this new appointment and is happy with it, for all we know it was his idea as he wants a new perspective on everything going forward.

I don't understand how Football Departments work, I'll admit!


For the life of me, I don't know how a club can function unless the head coach looks after everything to do with the footy.


I don't for a second believe that Malthouse has a boss (in a football sense). Nor do I think he needs one!

Lyon should be making calls on who he wants on his list, who he doesn't want on his list, and the direction and vision for the team.


Quite simply, everything he needs to make sure this all happens should be provided where possible.

If he fails to deliver what he and the board agree to, then he gets the arse! Simple!



People believe that the Footy Manager steps in above the coach and is effectively his boss.

I can't see how that's workable, and why it's required. Unless it's a Malthouse or a Matthews being the Footy Manager!

How can a guy like Drain or Pelchen possibly oversee what a coach like Ross Lyon does?! How do them give him orders on how to coach and what vision to team should have!?

[saintbrat]

I don't understand how Football Departments work, I'll admit!

For the life of me, I don't know how a club can function unless the head coach looks after everything to do with the footy.


I don't for a second believe that Malthouse has a boss (in a football sense). Nor do I think he needs one!

Lyon should be making calls on who he wants on his list, who he doesn't want on his list, and the direction and vision for the team.


Quite simply, everything he needs to make sure this all happens should be provided where possible.

If he fails to deliver what he and the board agree to, then he gets the arse! Simple!



People believe that the Footy Manager steps in above the coach and is effectively his boss.

I can't see how that's workable, and why it's required. Unless it's a Malthouse or a Matthews being the Footy Manager!

How can a guy like Drain or Pelchen possibly oversee what a coach like Ross Lyon does?! How do them give him orders on how to coach and what vision to team should have!?

worked/works at Geelong where Balme is the Go to man and took the heat and everyday organisation of Thompson.

[Johnny Member]

worked/works at Geelong where Balme is the Go to man and took the heat and everyday organisation of Thompson.

But is he Thompson's boss?

Did he tell Thompson who to recruit? Did he listen to recruiters ahead of Thompson? Did he cut guys from the list with merely input from Thompson?


Or, as you said, does he just take care of annoying stuff like talking to the press and other 'footy' stuff that the coach couldn't be bothered doing!


I can't accept that Balme was the one with the vision and the plan, and he directed Thompson as to how to go about it.

[Mr Magic]

The way you're describing it JM, it's eerily like the GT model that we had prior to Lyon.

Is that what you're advocating?


I'm not sure anybody on here (or even in the media) can conclusively state what Pelchen is actually being employed to do.
Or who he controls
Or who answeres to him
Or who he answers to.

I did note that about a week ago there was a 'news item' that the Saints had cancelled a 'future planning meeting' from the Westvpac Centre adn moved it to Seaford.

Maybe Pelchen's appointment has more to do with long term future planning than day to day operations (including the areas you are raising)?

[joffaboy]

I find it amusing that people are discussing this like Lyon would have had no imput in the process or the decision.

Nettlefield was on SEN and said RL was the proactive force driving this change.

Really there is much jumping at shadows, especially from a certain ex coach who has not been at the club in six years.

Nettlefield, when asked to comment on Thomas's views from FC last night, just said, no I wont comment and then went on to explain the position that Pelchen would fill - said it was very similiar to Drains and it wasn't earth shattering.

Goodness there are a lot of nervous nellies out in SS land. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you lot

[Saints43]

If he is coming to drive future directions then maybe he will be setting up things like a standalone VFL team?

And we still don't seem to be getting recruiting as right as we could. I don't think we have recruited players that suit what RL wants from the team so anyone who could manage the conversation between the football department and the recruiters would be a good thing imo.

[Johnny Member]

I find it amusing that people are discussing this like Lyon would have had no imput in the process or the decision.

Nettlefield was on SEN and said RL was the proactive force driving this change.

Really there is much jumping at shadows, especially from a certain ex coach who has not been at the club in six years.

Nettlefield, when asked to comment on Thomas's views from FC last night, just said, no I wont comment and then went on to explain the position that Pelchen would fill - said it was very similiar to Drains and it wasn't earth shattering.

Goodness there are a lot of nervous nellies out in SS land. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you lot

I think the issue is, that no one actually knows what these guys do and what the structures of Footy Departments actually are.


I think, the misconception is that the Footy Manager is the coach's boss. That's what people seem to think, and what the press (Hutchy) seem to portray.

But I don't think that's the case. I don't think it could work if it was.



And to Mr Magic....yeah, I don't think the 'Thomas' setup was an issue. The issue there was the people - not the structure!

The reality is, that the coach reports to the Board. I don't think Thomas liked that, due to personal issues.
And I don't think the Board's relationship towards Thomas was any good either!

That was the issue there.


Apart from that, I don't think what we did back then was much different to what everyone else does anyway.

The coach runs the footy department. He delegates to other people - but he's the boss.

Probably the only difference between us back then, and everyone else was that Thomas wanted the world to know he was the boss! Whereas other coaches led the footy world to believe that the Footy Manager was in charge and the coach was 'just coaching'.

I don't believe for a second that senior AFL coaches are happy to 'just coach' and let other people recruit for them and delist guys!

[Johnny Member]

The way you're describing it JM, it's eerily like the GT model that we had prior to Lyon.

Is that what you're advocating?


I'm not sure anybody on here (or even in the media) can conclusively state what Pelchen is actually being employed to do.
Or who he controls
Or who answeres to him
Or who he answers to.

I did note that about a week ago there was a 'news item' that the Saints had cancelled a 'future planning meeting' from the Westvpac Centre adn moved it to Seaford.

Maybe Pelchen's appointment has more to do with long term future planning than day to day operations (including the areas you are raising)?

Yeah, I reckon you're right.


As I said above, the coach is surely the boss of the footy stuff. There's no way that Ross Lyon isn't the boss. There's no way that any senior coach isn't!


But, a coach can't be worried about setting up VFL teams, or anything like that. So that's where a 'Footy Manager' would probably come into it.

That's the type of stuff that they'd be there for I'd imagine. Which makes perfect sense.



But yeah, no one knows what the hell these guys do exactly!

[Zac Attack]

Does this mean Andrew McQualter will definately be sacked?

[shmic_s]

Week to week during the season Ross isn't going to want to be talking to our recruiters and working out exactly what is required. He's going to be worried about matchups, skills, stoppage setups.

As mentioned, last year he coached two grand finals back-to-back and then had to sit down for trade and draft week.
This appiontment maybe allows Ross and Chris to talk about whats required, Chris then works with the recruiters, contracts etc. Then he and Ross sit down and discuss the best options for moving forward. Gives him some extra time to coach the team he has at his disposal.

But really i just dont have a clue, just as Hutchy, Thomas and Caro probally don't.

[Johnny Member]

But really i just dont have a clue, just as Hutchy, Thomas and Caro probally don't.

See I think Butterss wanted a Footy Manager to actually reel Thomas in.

To actually be his boss, and keep him under control, and pull the strings that the Board wanted pulled - because they couldn't do it themselves!


I think that's why Thomas didn't want it - nor would any coach.

But as I've said, I don't think that's actually how a footy department is meant to work - and I'd highly doubt that that is what we're doing now.

[The OtherThommo]

I find it amusing that people are discussing this like Lyon would have had no imput in the process or the decision.

Nettlefield was on SEN and said RL was the proactive force driving this change.

Really there is much jumping at shadows, especially from a certain ex coach who has not been at the club in six years.

Nettlefield, when asked to comment on Thomas's views from FC last night, just said, no I wont comment and then went on to explain the position that Pelchen would fill - said it was very similiar to Drains and it wasn't earth shattering.

Goodness there are a lot of nervous nellies out in SS land. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you lot

I'm not at all surprised MN has said RTB was the proactive force driving the change. Ross clearly loves coaching and any move that maximises his concentration on coaching would have his support. We've had a few goes at trying to get this right (Drain, Peake in recruiting) without rip roaring success, given their shortish tenures. Ross would have found those deficiencies distracting him from coaching.

Some seem, also, to have hurdled from the Pelchen appointment to every bloke over the age of about 21 getting the bullet. If that was the case, then Pelchen would be reversing most of what he did at Port Adelaide and Hawthorn.

Pelchen didn't look to 'juniorfy' the whole playing list at Hawthorn. He looked to get balance in the list. He was one of the first to pursue the age band process, where you seek to have a balance of players in the new, developing, prime and experienced bands. That process might involve a tweak, if you're close, or a longer process, if the starting point is some way off the right balance.

The evidence from his time at Hawthorn suggests he stuck to that principle. While many only recall the young players he got to Hawthorn, in recent times he did get Dew (resurrected 'ol Fatty and he played well in a premiership), Burgoyne and Bruce (not sure about that one!) to Hawthorn to address list balance. He also plucked a few mature age newbies along the way.

I do not believe anybody in the heirachy would have gone down Pelchen Road without Ross being enthusiastically behind it. They know who is the football head of this club and it's Ross. They trust him, they almost revere him. None of them would do anything to p!ss him off, because thus far it's been a mighty fine result.

Pelchen's an ambitious, ruthless bastard. But, he's not stupid. He will well know how Ross is regarded at this footy club, and throughout the industry. He'll support Ross so that he can concentrate on coaching.

If Pelchen has real managerial capability he will know the best managers get the best results by supporting their best people. They stay out of their way, remove the obstacles to success and let them get on with it.

Alternatively, if he's more a political operator, he'll know that Ross is The Boss, anyway, and, therefore, he'll stay well clear of any thoughts of Lenny moving on. I'm sure Pelchen understands footy club man love!

Good move, I reckon.

[bigcarl]

It must be the ultimate in professional insults for a bloke who's never coached or played to be put ahead of him and instruct him where to take the team.


And if it's not a direct line of report - then what's the point of it?


If he knows his stuff, then sure get him to the club - but I'd have him reporting to the head coach.

If the club don't like the coach's style or vision - then get rid of him. Get someone else.

V good post johnnymember. The club needs to make the chain of command clear to all concerned. Otherwise no one knows where he stands and no organization can operate like that.

[Dr Spaceman]

It must be the ultimate in professional insults for a bloke who's never coached or played to be put ahead of him and instruct him where to take the team.


And if it's not a direct line of report - then what's the point of it?


If he knows his stuff, then sure get him to the club - but I'd have him reporting to the head coach.

If the club don't like the coach's style or vision - then get rid of him. Get someone else.

V good post johnnymember. The club needs to make the chain of command clear to all concerned. Otherwise no one knows where he stands and no organization can operate like that.

I reckon they already have carl.

Of course they've omitted to tell us but that's understandable.

[Junction Oval]

The decision
Seems a great progressive and "opportunistic" appointment to me. Clubs are about "team" trying to reach the pinnacle of success - to get there, everything and everyone needs to interlock and work as one combined unit, which of course, is easier said than done!
The Possible Role
The right person, planning and managing the overall strategy and direction, will enable the various "line managers" (to use a term), to focus on their particular areas - coaching, recruitment, player development etc etc. Line managers funnel their ideas/needs into an overall strategic management position and decisions are made on the directions to take in the best interests of the Club overall.

Planning is the easy bit - execution is the key and obviously the Saints Board believe that they have the right man to do the job.

Communicate with Members
That there are over 100 comments of various levels of support and close to 3,000 site views to date, I would hope that the Club realises just how important Members see this appointment. It seems that there is much uncertainty about exactly what Pelchen's role is. In the circumstances, surely there is an onus on the Club to communicate/provide more detail about Pelchen's exact role, responsibilities and duties to the members via the Saints website. This is not "secret" information.
The Coach
It would be difficult to believe that The Coach is not the major influencer in things to do with "team." To think that the Board would bring in someone to "tell him what to do" would be a long bow to draw. I would like to think that it is more a top level "supportive" role from an overall Club perspective. Let's hope so anyway.

It's a very progressive move by the Club. Let's hope that Chris is up to the task and we wish him well for future success. Time will tell.

[SaintPav]

I find it amusing that people are discussing this like Lyon would have had no imput in the process or the decision.

Nettlefield was on SEN and said RL was the proactive force driving this change.

Really there is much jumping at shadows, especially from a certain ex coach who has not been at the club in six years.

Nettlefield, when asked to comment on Thomas's views from FC last night, just said, no I wont comment and then went on to explain the position that Pelchen would fill - said it was very similiar to Drains and it wasn't earth shattering.

Goodness there are a lot of nervous nellies out in SS land. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you lot

Nettlefield?

Nervous nellie...

[gringo]

they should have spent his wage buying the old long sleeve wooly jumpers from the 50s and sending us back to Moorabbin.

[saintbrat]

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio ... a-CEO/2674

Michael's interview on SEN this morning

he was alos on the sports news on Ch ten But i can't find clip yet

[lendog heaven]

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio ... a-CEO/2674

Michael's interview on SEN this morning

thanks for that brat

[PJ]

St.Kilda sits clearly in a poised position from the last few years and in relation to the results this year,either we fulfill the potential of the incumbents over the next 2 years or we look to the future. This appointment could be seen as going either way but I'd like to think we are getting some more brains/knowledge/experience involved in the quest to pull it off over the next 2.

[Dr Spaceman]

I find it amusing that people are discussing this like Lyon would have had no imput in the process or the decision.

Nettlefield was on SEN and said RL was the proactive force driving this change.

Really there is much jumping at shadows, especially from a certain ex coach who has not been at the club in six years.

Nettlefield, when asked to comment on Thomas's views from FC last night, just said, no I wont comment and then went on to explain the position that Pelchen would fill - said it was very similiar to Drains and it wasn't earth shattering.

Goodness there are a lot of nervous nellies out in SS land. Wouldn't want to be in the trenches with you lot

Heard GT have a bit of a chuckle about the appointment on Footy Classified last night suggesting there'll be friction between the two.

However it's not like Pelchen will be looking at taking over as coach, so I don't see any immediate reason why he would not be fully respectful and supportive of Lyon's position and tenure.

[saintbrat]

this almost has the facts right-
Galbally is In memberhsip not football- and Ammet has the legal expertise in the football dept.

PELCHEN TO THE RESCUE

Chris Pelchen's appointment as head of football at St Kilda indicates the rebuild is very much under way.

It has started already this year with a welter of debuts handed out to the likes of Jamie Cripps, Tom Ledger, Aaron Siposs, Daniel Archer and Nick Winmar.

But as Ross Lyon has indicated before, the Saints certainly won't just bottom out, take some picks, and hope to challenge again.

A premiership side is always a "blend'' - Lyon's word - of elite talent, recycled stars, rookies and value picks from the national draft.

The Saints clearly hope to do what Sydney has done so well - continue to contend given their top-tier talent, yet at the same time regenerate an ageing playing list.

Pelchen certainly doesn't deserve all of the credit for the 2008 premiership list as some have given him.

The likes of Gary Buckenara and John Turnbull also recruited some of the premiership players, who were developed and trained by the coaching staff.

But he has an excellent handle on the number and type of players needed for a premiership side, the free agency model, and the opportunities that will present to clubs in coming years.

He is a super get for the Saints.

He will require trust from Lyon, who in the past has ruled with an iron fist even when it came to recruiting and list management decisions.

The club now has Lyon, football manager Greg Hutchison, a list manager in Ameet Bains, another list manager handling legal issues in Sarah Galbally, and Pelchen as the head of football.

The rebuild will be gradual and methodical and not necessarily involve a plummet down the ladder.

But if the Saints do not have the Pies' football department budget, at least they are building the staffing resources to handle what shapes as a challenging five years ahead for all clubs

.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/w ... 6097926691

[saintsRrising]

this almost has the facts right-
Galbally is In memberhsip not football- and Ammet has the legal expertise in the football dept.

Galbally is not just Membership....but Commercial as well as I would bet given her strong legal background that she would spend a lot more time on Commercial aspects than Membership.

[thejiggingsaint]

er, I know this may sound a wee bit naive/silly, BUT it might just be an idea to actually trust that the club have recruited someone who may be an asset to us long-term. At the very least we should give the bloke a chance to settle into the job before we start judging the wisdom (or otherwise) of appointing him. As for the views of GT/Caro et al...the media are ALWAYS on the lookout for "power struggles" "implosions" etc at EVERY club not just ours, it goes with the territory.
Lets at least let the guy REPORT FOR WORK before we start dismissing him!