Why Jeans Left St Kilda??

[perfectionist]

Allan Jeans' last year as coach of the Saints was 1976, and yet half of the posts relate to years after. It's no shame to have been born in the last forty years, but don't think you have anything to add to this thread unless it relates to the actual period. I hope that, in the non too distant future, you will have your own heroes to celebrate.

[Tess]

I did hear Lyon on SEN talking about a few phone calls he and Jeans had. There might be a podcast on the SEN site somewhere.

[saintbrat]

just posted this on the tribute thread
http://www.saints.com.au/saints%20tv/ta ... #playvideo

[To the top]

The influence that Fox had was with ANZ Bank, which was the major Creditor.

Once ANZ accepted the miniscule pay out which survived the club at least all other Creditors were obliged to follow.

There were the times of Form 4's where St Kilda had to sell for money.

The split between the Social Club and the Football Club, which I think Plympton may have resolved (maybe Travis Payze, but around that time - a lot of acrimony tho), also played a major part in the sorry financial history of St Kilda.

There were many, many stories.

Most, if not all of them, factual.

[Bernard Shakey]

Does anyone remember exactly what year Jeansy went to Hawthorn?
I dont know exactly what job Allan Jeans did in the Police force at the time, but something in special events or similar. he worked pretty close to Mick Millar who was either Chief Comissioner or Assistant Commissioner at the time. Mick was a pretty strong Hawks man I think, and may have influenced Jeansy.

He spent a lot of time wrestling in the police gym at Russell Street. Every time I went there with my old man Jeansy was in the gym.

[Sainternist]

I was told he sent Stan Alves a message during the 97 GF to put Nathan Burke on Jarman.

I wonder what stage of the match the message was sent.

IMO, Harves would have been another good match up for Jarman.

[saintspremiers]

I was told he sent Stan Alves a message during the 97 GF to put Nathan Burke on Jarman.

I wonder what stage of the match the message was sent.

IMO, Harves would have been another good match up for Jarman.

A clenched fist to the cranium would've been better!

[stinger]

I was told he sent Stan Alves a message during the 97 GF to put Nathan Burke on Jarman.

I wonder what stage of the match the message was sent.

IMO, Harves would have been another good match up for Jarman.

A clenched fist to the cranium would've been better!

bloody oath...never forgive shanahan......never....

[plugger66]

I was told he sent Stan Alves a message during the 97 GF to put Nathan Burke on Jarman.

I wonder what stage of the match the message was sent.

IMO, Harves would have been another good match up for Jarman.

A clenched fist to the cranium would've been better!

bloody oath...never forgive shanahan......never....

I think that post just proves you know nothing about footy. Confirmed.

[ace]

We ended up paying him something like 22 cents in the dollar of what we owed him.

There in lay the problem.
Not only could the club not pay its' coach it could not pay its' players.
Very few quality players wanted to play for a club that can't pay their salaries and there is a limit how long a coach will stay at a club that can't pay him or recruit and retain quality players.

The club took on a large debt to move to Moorabbin and develop the ground.
Everything was fine.
The debt was serviceable until ......................

Goofy Whitlam and his Labor government were elected, they had been out of government for 23 years, they could not prioritise their dreams, they did them all at once.
They drove interest rates through the roof.
The club could no longer service its' debts.
Interest rates stayed high for a number of years even after Whitlam and his loonies were thrown out.

Lindsay Fox gave creditors a choice - agree to take a fraction of what they were owed and let the club survive OR fight for take a fraction of what they were owed and send the club into oblivion.

They choose to let the club survive.

I hate it when I see the club go into debt as it only takes a stupid government to destroy the clubs capacity to service that debt.

[saintspremiers]

Love your work ace!

[To the top]

This is not a political forum but when opinions such as that put by "Ace" are put the facts must be stated.

I was actually seconded to Treasury in Canberra for 3 years from 1972 - so I retired from muddy footy fields and took to Thredbo, Smiggins and the area south of Bateman's Bay - plus Sydney, Doyles, the (illegal) Casinos and Royal Randwick!

What "Ace" conveniently overlooks in his uneducated rant is that there was such an event as the First Global Oil Shock in 1974, and this drove inflation and interest rates (interest rates being a factor of cost of funds plus inflation) sky high - GLOBALLY, and caused the very severe economic disruption GLOBALLY.

It is not the same as currently, where the year on year on year double digit credit growth, tax cuts favouring high income earners plus non means tested handouts (First Home Owner's Grants, baby bonuses etc. etc.) and tax advantages (the halving of the CGT for example) thru the late 1990's until 2007 inflated asset prices - and the problem we labour with now is that we have $1.2 TRILLION of private mortgage debt (RBA data as at 2010), up from $334 BILLION in 2000 (RBA data) as a result of that sustained and imprudent period of double digit credit growth.

The RBA points to Australians currently paying down debt and accruing savings - hence the impact on concessional spending.

This mortgage debt lent by our lenders (and significantly borrowed from Global Capital Markets hence our Net Foreign Debt of $800 BILLION and our banks being on International Watch Lists with the Credit Agencies) equals our GDP.

Then we have another $700 BILLION lent to business.

Government debt is just $75 BILLION - and not much higher than it was in 2000.

It is also recorded that government receipts have fallen because of the erosion of the tax base and the impact on Company profitability of the GFC (again a GLOBAL event).

It does annoy me greatly that uneducated Australians opine as if Australia is not impacted by Global events - the 1987 Stock Market Crash, the late 1980's Savings & Loans debacle (which nearly brought down major banks here and did bring down some smaller banks - how many failed in the USA and elsewhere?), the IMF Crisis in SE Asia when Thialand floated its currency and the IMF instructed that those banks which had not addressed their S&L lending practices on their Balance Sheets should be left to fail as a condition of IMF support in the region - and then the sub-prime lending fiasco, which is not much different to the S&L crisis in terms of impact - and reason.

Types such as "Ace" are the reason we do not learn the lessons - and they are a real threat to all of us.

[saintspremiers]

To The Toff - is all of that why Jeans left St Kilda????

[plugger66]

This is not a political forum but when opinions such as that put by "Ace" are put the facts must be stated.

I was actually seconded to Treasury in Canberra for 3 years from 1972 - so I retired from muddy footy fields and took to Thredbo, Smiggins and the area south of Bateman's Bay - plus Sydney, Doyles, the (illegal) Casinos and Royal Randwick!

What "Ace" conveniently overlooks in his uneducated rant is that there was such an event as the First Global Oil Shock in 1974, and this drove inflation and interest rates (interest rates being a factor of cost of funds plus inflation) sky high - GLOBALLY, and caused the very severe economic disruption GLOBALLY.

It is not the same as currently, where the year on year on year double digit credit growth, tax cuts favouring high income earners plus non means tested handouts (First Home Owner's Grants, baby bonuses etc. etc.) and tax advantages (the halving of the CGT for example) thru the late 1990's until 2007 inflated asset prices - and the problem we labour with now is that we have $1.2 TRILLION of private mortgage debt (RBA data as at 2010), up from $334 BILLION in 2000 (RBA data) as a result of that sustained and imprudent period of double digit credit growth.

The RBA points to Australians currently paying down debt and accruing savings - hence the impact on concessional spending.

This mortgage debt lent by our lenders (and significantly borrowed from Global Capital Markets hence our Net Foreign Debt of $800 BILLION and our banks being on International Watch Lists with the Credit Agencies) equals our GDP.

Then we have another $700 BILLION lent to business.

Government debt is just $75 BILLION - and not much higher than it was in 2000.

It is also recorded that government receipts have fallen because of the erosion of the tax base and the impact on Company profitability of the GFC (again a GLOBAL event).

It does annoy me greatly that uneducated Australians opine as if Australia is not impacted by Global events - the 1987 Stock Market Crash, the late 1980's Savings & Loans debacle (which nearly brought down major banks here and did bring down some smaller banks - how many failed in the USA and elsewhere?), the IMF Crisis in SE Asia when Thialand floated its currency and the IMF instructed that those banks which had not addressed their S&L lending practices on their Balance Sheets should be left to fail as a condition of IMF support in the region - and then the sub-prime lending fiasco, which is not much different to the S&L crisis in terms of impact - and reason.

Types such as "Ace" are the reason we do not learn the lessons - and they are a real threat to all of us.

Stop smoking now.

[desertsaint]

This is not a political forum but when opinions such as that put by "Ace" are put the facts must be stated.

I was actually seconded to Treasury in Canberra for 3 years from 1972 - so I retired from muddy footy fields and took to Thredbo, Smiggins and the area south of Bateman's Bay - plus Sydney, Doyles, the (illegal) Casinos and Royal Randwick!

What "Ace" conveniently overlooks in his uneducated rant is that there was such an event as the First Global Oil Shock in 1974, and this drove inflation and interest rates (interest rates being a factor of cost of funds plus inflation) sky high - GLOBALLY, and caused the very severe economic disruption GLOBALLY.

It is not the same as currently, where the year on year on year double digit credit growth, tax cuts favouring high income earners plus non means tested handouts (First Home Owner's Grants, baby bonuses etc. etc.) and tax advantages (the halving of the CGT for example) thru the late 1990's until 2007 inflated asset prices - and the problem we labour with now is that we have $1.2 TRILLION of private mortgage debt (RBA data as at 2010), up from $334 BILLION in 2000 (RBA data) as a result of that sustained and imprudent period of double digit credit growth.

The RBA points to Australians currently paying down debt and accruing savings - hence the impact on concessional spending.

This mortgage debt lent by our lenders (and significantly borrowed from Global Capital Markets hence our Net Foreign Debt of $800 BILLION and our banks being on International Watch Lists with the Credit Agencies) equals our GDP.

Then we have another $700 BILLION lent to business.

Government debt is just $75 BILLION - and not much higher than it was in 2000.

It is also recorded that government receipts have fallen because of the erosion of the tax base and the impact on Company profitability of the GFC (again a GLOBAL event).

It does annoy me greatly that uneducated Australians opine as if Australia is not impacted by Global events - the 1987 Stock Market Crash, the late 1980's Savings & Loans debacle (which nearly brought down major banks here and did bring down some smaller banks - how many failed in the USA and elsewhere?), the IMF Crisis in SE Asia when Thialand floated its currency and the IMF instructed that those banks which had not addressed their S&L lending practices on their Balance Sheets should be left to fail as a condition of IMF support in the region - and then the sub-prime lending fiasco, which is not much different to the S&L crisis in terms of impact - and reason.

Types such as "Ace" are the reason we do not learn the lessons - and they are a real threat to all of us.

in summation - the world economy sucked, ergo - whitlam was not a loon?

[To the top]

I do not know which year Jeans left St Kilda - because, apart from the likes of Alan Killigrew and Brian Bowe who I knew because they knew my father well from 1959, I knew nothing of St Kilda before coming to Melbourne in 1981.

What I do know full well is the circumstances of the St Kilda FC at that time (1981).

Many businesses were struggling badly at that time - we had endured double digit inflation, double digit unemployment and Commercial Bills discounting at 25% - and with Line Fees of a further 3%.

These conditions endured from about 1978/1979 until 1982.

This experience has led me to the Wolfenson/Spiegal (World Bank) summary that austerity measures are self defeating in such times of economic stress - and we had a freeze on wages and salaries as the "cure" thru that 1979 -> 1982 period, exacerbating the problem.

It was during this period (1981) that Fox "negotiated" with ANZ who were looking to get their money back somehow - and it may have been suggested that his business may transfer to another bank.

Jeans and many, many others (including suppliers) were Unsecured Creditors - and had been owed money for a considerable period of time.

Many other Clubs, including Collingwood with McAllister as President, were also under extreme financial pressure at that time.

CFF's were being put to their banker's on a weekly basis so they could obtain the finance to have beverages available at home games.

No doubt, because of his status as an Unsecured Creditor when the Deed of Arrangement was accepted at a Creditor's Meeting on the vote of ANZ, Jeans was owed considerable money from his time as Coach - because he would not have been remunerated after he resigned as Coach and would not have become an Unsecured Creditor post his resignation (allowing for such items as LSL, holiday pay (if applicable) etc. etc.).

So, if you know when Jeans left as Coach you may be able to join the dots.

All this adds up, in my eyes anyway, to it being very conceivable that Jeans resigned and went elsewhere (when?) because of the financial circumstances at St Kilda FC and because he was not getting paid - hence he was an Unsecured Creditor when the Creditors Meeting was convened in about 1981.

Quite frankly, St Kilda should not have survived.

[maverick]

I do not know which year Jeans left St Kilda - because, apart from the likes of Alan Killigrew and Brian Bowe who I knew because they knew my father well from 1959, I knew nothing of St Kilda before coming to Melbourne in 1981.

What I do know full well is the circumstances of the St Kilda FC at that time (1981).

Many businesses were struggling badly at that time - we had endured double digit inflation, double digit unemployment and Commercial Bills discounting at 25% - and with Line Fees of a further 3%.

These conditions endured from about 1978/1979 until 1982.

This experience has led me to the Wolfenson/Spiegal (World Bank) summary that austerity measures are self defeating in such times of economic stress - and we had a freeze on wages and salaries as the "cure" thru that 1979 -> 1982 period, exacerbating the problem.

It was during this period (1981) that Fox "negotiated" with ANZ who were looking to get their money back somehow - and it may have been suggested that his business may transfer to another bank.

Jeans and many, many others (including suppliers) were Unsecured Creditors - and had been owed money for a considerable period of time.

Many other Clubs, including Collingwood with McAllister as President, were also under extreme financial pressure at that time.

CFF's were being put to their banker's on a weekly basis so they could obtain the finance to have beverages available at home games.

No doubt, because of his status as an Unsecured Creditor when the Deed of Arrangement was accepted at a Creditor's Meeting on the vote of ANZ, Jeans was owed considerable money from his time as Coach - because he would not have been remunerated after he resigned as Coach and would not have become an Unsecured Creditor post his resignation (allowing for such items as LSL, holiday pay (if applicable) etc. etc.).

So, if you know when Jeans left as Coach you may be able to join the dots.

All this adds up, in my eyes anyway, to it being very conceivable that Jeans resigned and went elsewhere (when?) because of the financial circumstances at St Kilda FC and because he was not getting paid - hence he was an Unsecured Creditor when the Creditors Meeting was convened in about 1981.

Quite frankly, St Kilda should not have survived.

Jeans left in 1976.
Do you think all this caused the dingo to take Azaria in 1980?
Maybe it's also the reason Richmond has barely won a game since 1982 also?

The 80's have a lot to answer for....

[perfectionist]

..Jeans left in 1976.
Do you think all this caused the dingo to take Azaria in 1980?
Maybe it's also the reason Richmond has barely won a game since 1982 also?..The 80's have a lot to answer for....

I blame Jeff Kennett.

[Sainternist]

..Jeans left in 1976.
Do you think all this caused the dingo to take Azaria in 1980?
Maybe it's also the reason Richmond has barely won a game since 1982 also?..The 80's have a lot to answer for....

I blame Jeff Kennett.

I blame Jeff Kennett for everything. It makes you feel better. You ought to give it a try some time

Anyway, that old hatchet face isn't a real Hawthorn man. He wanted them to merge with Melbourne in 1996.

Hawthorn supporters should really be praising people like Don Scott for the fact their club is still around.