Luke Ball

[markp]

If you're saying GT would've handled it differently... maybe if Lyon had been Ball's coach from the start he wouldn't have been flogged to death as a 'kid'.

I think the emergence of Armo and Steven is a testament to them being well managed rather than overlooked previously, and hopefully it will pay dividends and hold them in good stead for the remainder of their careers.

[SainterK]

Like Dempster right? Yet he has proven he deserved the faith of his coach, though so many people (I'm not sure if you were one of them, but you'd be honest enough to admit if you were) said he just a spot in the side because he was Ross Lyon's 'love child'

I believe that Dempster was getting a lot of games when he wasn't the best option (a couple of years ago) and that it was most likely because Ross had a "man-crush" on him

Sure they've both eventually repaid the faith Ross placed in them, but that's the thing some probably have a problem with. He gave them opportunity, after opportunity, after opportunity, so unless they were absolutely hopeless they would eventually start playing some good footy.

APS, respectfully....that is rubbish.

Up until this season, Sean never played a game as well as Bakes, only in place of.

When in 2008, Steven missed for the entire year through injury, and again when he got suspended for 10 weeks in 2010.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-s ... even-baker

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-s ... n-dempster

Up until the GF last year, they had never really played at the same time, this year he has deserved his position.

Silly myth that started through this 'ross plays favourites' rubbish.

[markp]

Surely this topic has run its full course? Or has it?

Going on previous experience, this will only be the case when a new equally contentious issue takes its place.

[Johnny Member]

Surely this topic has run its full course? Or has it?

Going on previous experience, this will only be the case when a new equally contentious issue takes its place.

Man, we all know that these threads will go on for eons until one side of the fence admits defeat!

And we all know, that that 'aint ever gonna happen!

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Like Dempster right? Yet he has proven he deserved the faith of his coach, though so many people (I'm not sure if you were one of them, but you'd be honest enough to admit if you were) said he just a spot in the side because he was Ross Lyon's 'love child'

I believe that Dempster was getting a lot of games when he wasn't the best option (a couple of years ago) and that it was most likely because Ross had a "man-crush" on him

Sure they've both eventually repaid the faith Ross placed in them, but that's the thing some probably have a problem with. He gave them opportunity, after opportunity, after opportunity, so unless they were absolutely hopeless they would eventually start playing some good footy.

APS, respectfully....that is rubbish.

Up until this season, Sean never played a game as well as Bakes, only in place of.

When in 2008, Steven missed for the entire year through injury, and again when he got suspended for 10 weeks in 2010.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-s ... even-baker

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-s ... n-dempster

Up until the GF last year, they had never really played at the same time, this year he has deserved his position.

Silly myth that started through this 'ross plays favourites' rubbish.

What the hell has Bakes got to do with any of this? I don't care if Dempster (who you obviously are going to be sticking up for at every opportunity) only played when Bakes was out or not, he got a lot of games, two or three years ago, when he was seemingly doing pretty much nothing, including a bunch of games up forward (where he certainly wasn't taking Bakes spot on the field). He played a whole lot of games where he did very little and I doubt very much if he would have been given so many if he hadn't been from Sydney, as I said. (I have no problem with him getting games this year, though, as he's clearly doing a good job).
Around the same time Schneider was getting game after game despite the fact he would hardly be sighted for about 5 or 6 weeks at a time. He would then play a good game and it would be enough to keep his spot and he then wouldn't be sighted again for about another 6 weeks.
Thankfully he turned it around in a big way in 2008, or 2009, but again, I doubt he would have been kept in the side during so many of those lean spells if he hadn't been from Sydney.

[SainterK]

What the hell has Bakes got to do with any of this? I don't care if Dempster (who you obviously are going to be sticking up for at every opportunity) only played when Bakes was out or not, he got a lot of games, two or three years ago, when he was seemingly doing pretty much nothing, including a bunch of games up forward (where he certainly wasn't taking Bakes spot on the field). He played a whole lot of games where he did very little and I doubt very much if he would have been given so many if he hadn't been from Sydney, as I said. (I have no problem with him getting games this year, though, as he's clearly doing a good job).
Around the same time Schneider was getting game after game despite the fact he would hardly be sighted for about 5 or 6 weeks at a time. He would then play a good game and it would be enough to keep his spot and he then wouldn't be sighted again for about another 6 weeks.
Thankfully he turned it around in a big way in 2008, or 2009, but again, I doubt he would have been kept in the side during so many of those lean spells if he hadn't been from Sydney.

3 years ago in 2008 (the next year he missed most of with his knee) so who would of been the alternative then?

Lynch was taken that year, Walsh wasn't here yet?

Actually APS, I am trying to stick up for Ross, when people say he plays guys because they are favourites.

Clearly I am not doing a good job.

[Johnny Member]

Actually APS, I am trying to stick up for Ross, when people say he plays guys because they are favourites.

Clearly I am not doing a good job.

I reckon he defintely does.

But pretty much all coaches do.

[stinger]

to me mm ..it's just a case of the way ross works.....if thomas was still the coach, ball would still be a sainter...ross states that he loves all his players...but he does play favorites...always has...always will.....that's just him......lot of the younger ones haven't been given a fair deal either.....

....other clubs play their kids...and the kids have repaid their clubs for their faith in them.....this year there are dozens of young kids staring.....none of them sainters...ross prefers cast offs from other clubs who have more mature bodies...but less talent....he is his master's (roos) servant alright.....sad really.....we f***ed up.....well, the club did.....

You see Stinger, I cannot accept much of this.
I don't believe that Ross Lyon, or any AFL caoch, would deliberately pick a plyer knowing he had a better option.
Coaches may love certain players (who wouldn't love Lenny?) but I don't believe they would jeopardize a game just to pick a 'favourite'.

As for the oft misquoted Lyon comments about Ball's availability in the second half, I think the actual comments were 'maybe' he could have played a further 6 minutes.
philosophy.

not misquoted at all mm..apart from your effort above.(sorry mate)....i remember clearly that ross stated that it was intended to give ball an extra 6 minutes in each of the 3rd and 4th quarters but it didn't happen and that ross defected the blame elsewhere.....he somewhat retracted that in later interviews ....that is..he was prepared to accept some of the blame....but he never retracted the statement that it was intended to give more playing time to ball....f****** incompetence if you ask me....

...and i do not accept for one second that clubs stick to all aspects of their pre game plans no matter how the players are performing on the day.....ball was starring...and should have been kept on the park......the decision to leave him sitting on the pine cost us a flag..imhfo...and i'm never going to change my mind on that......


...anyway this has been done to death ad nauseum.....no one is going to change their view....just restate it.....as is happening in this thread....

[Mr Magic]

to me mm ..it's just a case of the way ross works.....if thomas was still the coach, ball would still be a sainter...ross states that he loves all his players...but he does play favorites...always has...always will.....that's just him......lot of the younger ones haven't been given a fair deal either.....

....other clubs play their kids...and the kids have repaid their clubs for their faith in them.....this year there are dozens of young kids staring.....none of them sainters...ross prefers cast offs from other clubs who have more mature bodies...but less talent....he is his master's (roos) servant alright.....sad really.....we f***ed up.....well, the club did.....

You see Stinger, I cannot accept much of this.
I don't believe that Ross Lyon, or any AFL caoch, would deliberately pick a plyer knowing he had a better option.
Coaches may love certain players (who wouldn't love Lenny?) but I don't believe they would jeopardize a game just to pick a 'favourite'.

As for the oft misquoted Lyon comments about Ball's availability in the second half, I think the actual comments were 'maybe' he could have played a further 6 minutes.
philosophy.

not misquoted at all mm..apart from your effort above.(sorry mate)....i remember clearly that ross stated that it was intended to give ball an extra 6 minutes in each of the 3rd and 4th quarters but it didn't happen and that ross defected the blame elsewhere.....he somewhat retracted that in later interviews ....that is..he was prepared to accept some of the blame....but he never retracted the statement that it was intended to give more playing time to ball....f****** incompetence if you ask me....

...and i do not accept for one second that clubs stick to all aspects of their pre game plans no matter how the players are performing on the day.....ball was starring...and should have been kept on the park......the decision to leave him sitting on the pine cost us a flag..imhfo...and i'm never going to change my mind on that......

I know you won't but it was worth a try on a Saturday afternoon when we're playing on Sunday!

[saintjake]

Why is our forum so bitter and twisted.
The bloke wasn't given a fair crack.
So he rightly packed his bags and left for more money and got a flag to boot.
Good on him, I still love watching him play.
Great person.

[stinger]

Just be honest Stinger, you don't care for him, he hasn't endeared himself to you? At least I won't feel the need to respond again should a discussion head this way again, knowing your mind is already convinced otherwise.

that's not true..i was prepared to give him a go...the guy has faults..(don't we all)...he's not peter perfect..anyway..i stick to what i have said as i actually believe it .....the guy f***ed up and cost us one if not two flags....doesn't mean that i dislike him......it's just that he's not the saviour...and never will be...

..and you don't need to get personal, anyway i don't particularly give a rats if you respond to any of my posts or not...... you need get over yourself. ffs....gez...

[stinger]

Why is our forum so bitter and twisted.
The bloke wasn't given a fair crack.
So he rightly packed his bags and left for more money and got a flag to boot.
Good on him, I still love watching him play.
Great person.

yep...i can go along with that...especially as i'm aware that we tried to trade him to the roos about 10 weeks out from the finals.....

[stinger]

Like Dempster right? Yet he has proven he deserved the faith of his coach, though so many people (I'm not sure if you were one of them, but you'd be honest enough to admit if you were) said he just a spot in the side because he was Ross Lyon's 'love child'

no...i never said that...did say he didn't deserve his position in the side on what he was showing or contributing ...and he didn't...still got picked though......now he is playing okay....and is worth his spot.....wasn't always the case though.....

[SainterK]

Just be honest Stinger, you don't care for him, he hasn't endeared himself to you? At least I won't feel the need to respond again should a discussion head this way again, knowing your mind is already convinced otherwise.

that's not true..i was prepared to give him a go...the guy has faults..(don't we all)...he's not peter perfect..anyway..i stick to what i have said as i actually believe it .....the guy f***ed up and cost us one if not two flags....doesn't mean that i dislike him......it's just that he's not the saviour...and never will be...

..and you don't need to get personal, anyway i don't particularly give a rats if you respond to any of my posts or not...... you needget over yourself. ffs....gez...

?

You're the one who made this personal.

I was just curious to hear your sentiments about Ross Lyon, so I knew where you stood for future reference.

To be fair, you've never gone as far as to say it as strongly as you have above, oh....and question marks generally mean questions Stinger, I was simply asking if you liked him.

Now you've confirmed the above, it's pretty clear, otherwise it just goes around in circles....

No need to f-bomb at me.

[stinger]

to me mm ..it's just a case of the way ross works.....if thomas was still the coach, ball would still be a sainter...ross states that he loves all his players...but he does play favorites...always has...always will.....that's just him......lot of the younger ones haven't been given a fair deal either.....

....other clubs play their kids...and the kids have repaid their clubs for their faith in them.....this year there are dozens of young kids staring.....none of them sainters...ross prefers cast offs from other clubs who have more mature bodies...but less talent....he is his master's (roos) servant alright.....sad really.....we f***ed up.....well, the club did.....

You see Stinger, I cannot accept much of this.
I don't believe that Ross Lyon, or any AFL caoch, would deliberately pick a plyer knowing he had a better option.
Coaches may love certain players (who wouldn't love Lenny?) but I don't believe they would jeopardize a game just to pick a 'favourite'.

As for the oft misquoted Lyon comments about Ball's availability in the second half, I think the actual comments were 'maybe' he could have played a further 6 minutes.
philosophy.

not misquoted at all mm..apart from your effort above.(sorry mate)....i remember clearly that ross stated that it was intended to give ball an extra 6 minutes in each of the 3rd and 4th quarters but it didn't happen and that ross defected the blame elsewhere.....he somewhat retracted that in later interviews ....that is..he was prepared to accept some of the blame....but he never retracted the statement that it was intended to give more playing time to ball....f****** incompetence if you ask me....

...and i do not accept for one second that clubs stick to all aspects of their pre game plans no matter how the players are performing on the day.....ball was starring...and should have been kept on the park......the decision to leave him sitting on the pine cost us a flag..imhfo...and i'm never going to change my mind on that......

I know you won't but it was worth a try on a Saturday afternoon when we're playing on Sunday!

[clarky449]

Why is our forum so bitter and twisted.
The bloke wasn't given a fair crack.
So he rightly packed his bags and left for more money and got a flag to boot.
Good on him, I still love watching him play.
Great person.

yep...i can go along with that...especially as i'm aware that we tried to trade him to the roos about 10 weeks out from the finals.....

Did you hear the from your "sources"

[stinger]

Just be honest Stinger, you don't care for him, he hasn't endeared himself to you? At least I won't feel the need to respond again should a discussion head this way again, knowing your mind is already convinced otherwise.

that's not true..i was prepared to give him a go...the guy has faults..(don't we all)...he's not peter perfect..anyway..i stick to what i have said as i actually believe it .....the guy f***ed up and cost us one if not two flags....doesn't mean that i dislike him......it's just that he's not the saviour...and never will be...

..and you don't need to get personal, anyway i don't particularly give a rats if you respond to any of my posts or not...... you need get over yourself. ffs....gez...

?

You're the one who made this personal.

I was just curious to hear your sentiments about Ross Lyon, so I knew where you stood for future reference.

To be fair, you've never gone as far as to say it as strongly as you have above, oh....and question marks generally mean questions Stinger, I was simply asking if you liked him.

Now you've confirmed the above, it's pretty clear, otherwise it just goes around in circles....

No need to f-bomb at me.

sorry if i over reacted mate....i don't dislike lyon.....always been impressed by the way he conducts himself.....just that he infuriates me...and others by playing a negative game that pple have dropped off watching and one that won't win games...that was f****** obvious in gf 2...and the fact that he won't give kids a fair go......

[stinger]

Why is our forum so bitter and twisted.
The bloke wasn't given a fair crack.
So he rightly packed his bags and left for more money and got a flag to boot.
Good on him, I still love watching him play.
Great person.

yep...i can go along with that...especially as i'm aware that we tried to trade him to the roos about 10 weeks out from the finals.....

Did you hear the from your "sources"

.

..i presume you mean hear "that" from my sources.....?...of course i did... ......and they are reliable....

[plugger66]

Why is our forum so bitter and twisted.
The bloke wasn't given a fair crack.
So he rightly packed his bags and left for more money and got a flag to boot.
Good on him, I still love watching him play.
Great person.

yep...i can go along with that...especially as i'm aware that we tried to trade him to the roos about 10 weeks out from the finals.....

Did you hear the from your "sources"

.

..i presume you mean hear "that" from my sources.....?...of course i did... ......and they are reliable....

At least you are consistent. You continue to lie.

[clarky449]

Why is our forum so bitter and twisted.
The bloke wasn't given a fair crack.
So he rightly packed his bags and left for more money and got a flag to boot.
Good on him, I still love watching him play.
Great person.

yep...i can go along with that...especially as i'm aware that we tried to trade him to the roos about 10 weeks out from the finals.....

Did you hear the from your "sources"

.

..i presume you mean hear "that" from my sources.....?...of course i did... ......and they are reliable....

You are pretty cool man with your sources.

[kalsaint]

He was getting over paid, and under performing at the expense of other players.

Correct. He was so far behind Lenny as a midfielder for much of that time that it's not funny.

So were 20 other players.

[bigcarl]

He was getting over paid, and under performing at the expense of other players.

Correct. He was so far behind Lenny as a midfielder for much of that time that it's not funny.

So were 20 other players.

Maybe, but my point is that we already had a great in and under player in Lenny.

It was hard to find room for another similar type unless he had other strings to his bow. From memory, Ross wanted him to spread faster and break lines ... not really Luke's strength.

His strength is clearances and we already had a better option. And we were paying him plenty.

So he was dropped for a couple of weeks and, instead of hanging in there with his mates and doing the team thing, he decided to jump ship. I think his family might have got in his ear about how badly he'd been treated etc.

Collingwood recognised that he was locked in behind Lenny and felt he could fill a need there.

[BigMart]

Pedlebury and swan are clearance animals......why do we make it sound like they are a team of wingman, and ball complemnted their outside mids...

Bally percentage of inside an outside ball is comparible with swan, pendlebury, beams, wellingham.....and now thomas an sidebottom have joined in..

Lenny has a similar game style to pendlebury.....lenny often carries the ball, and wins a lot of loose ball....

[bigcarl]

Pedlebury and swan are clearance animals......why do we make it sound like they are a team of wingman, and ball complemnted their outside mids...

Bally percentage of inside an outside ball is comparible with swan, pendlebury, beams, wellingham.....and now thomas an sidebottom have joined in..

Lenny has a similar game style to pendlebury.....lenny often carries the ball, and wins a lot of loose ball....

Whatever. I'm just outlining the reasons I believe he left St Kilda. Let's remember it was his decision ... not ours. There was a contract on the table for him to sign.

[tony74]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry,I still have memories of the last thread