They just continue to pick players who have no future in the AFL. Perhaps McQualter and Poli do perform better in the VFL; just like some of Thr other senior Sandy players who don't cut it at the next level.
McQualter, Polo and Gamble wouldn't be considered at any top AFL club and I doubt Gram, Clarke and Jones would get a regular gig in a top four side these days. Bakes is also on his last legs and isn't an automatic selection.
The fact is that we've got several players with skills that need to be developed and others who haven't been given a shot who all have spots taken from them by the rotating door of bottom four plodders with no future. And now Lyon has gone so extreme on the 'experience' factor that we're going in with one ruckman and one tall forward with no backup. Why is it so ridiculous to ask for a team like this
B: Gwilt, Dawson, Dempster
HB: Fisher, Walsh, Gilbert
C: Ledger, Armitage, Dal Santo
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Goddard
F: Milne, Johnson, Siposs
Foll: McEvoy, Montagna, Steven
Int: Archer, Peake, Lynch
Sub: Smith
Mostly players with good footskills and they all either have major upside for the future or their form means that they can't be dropped. Plenty of goal scoring options, plenty of run and a solid team balance. Lynch comes on to a flank and either Fisher or Goddard go to the midfield, Archer provides a temporary backup to McEvoy and splits packs when played forward. Johnson is a lead up target and can stay with gun opposition defenders going the other way. Smith on in the last quarter to provide an injection of pace and enthusiasm.
Surely some of those ideas are better than 'see if McQualter is any good on his 80th recall and if Polo learnt to kick. Gamble can be our Chris Dawes and McEvoy can ruck all game every week - that's sure to hold his body in good stead for the future! Johnson doesn't get a game until he kicks 12. Walsh runs forward too often and kicks the ball too long and straight. Let's keep Raph again as the sub, he seems to love that role.'
Team v North - Extended bench
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mad saint guy
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sasaint
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Have to agree that with the list as selected I am very worried that the Roos will dominate the ball out of the centre. Absolutely no back up for McEvoy. He willl get burnt out without someone to rotate withbergsone wrote:Who is going to give Ben a chop out in the ruck if required,dont like A graders like Roo,Fisher doing the job,and cant see anyone else Zac ???.IMO Walsh coming in would give a taller option forward and back.Plenty of 3rd man up around ground,still looks small to me
And having Gwilt come in as secong ruck 
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desertsaint
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ross aint a risk taker - mini in was always likely. don't brgudge him a chance, he's earned it. but to see names like polo, gamble, raph in there? revolving doors at the moment.
walsh probably wishing he'd been picked up elsewhere.
i want to play finals just to blood the kids, but doubt they'd get to play in one.
getting past the stage where a risk needs to be taken.
almost hope we lose so ross gives up and plays the youngsters.
one more year is all i'd give our coach - just seems to be missing that winner's ingredient. be it courage, luck, or confidence. afl's daniel kowalski.
walsh probably wishing he'd been picked up elsewhere.
i want to play finals just to blood the kids, but doubt they'd get to play in one.
getting past the stage where a risk needs to be taken.
almost hope we lose so ross gives up and plays the youngsters.
one more year is all i'd give our coach - just seems to be missing that winner's ingredient. be it courage, luck, or confidence. afl's daniel kowalski.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
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AnythingsPossibleSaints
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Don't like to say it, but I'm finding it hard to argue with any of that. I imagine we'll be called "traitors" and all kinds of funny s***, for saying so, though!desertsaint wrote:ross aint a risk taker - mini in was always likely. don't brgudge him a chance, he's earned it. but to see names like polo, gamble, raph in there? revolving doors at the moment.
walsh probably wishing he'd been picked up elsewhere.
i want to play finals just to blood the kids, but doubt they'd get to play in one.
getting past the stage where a risk needs to be taken.
almost hope we lose so ross gives up and plays the youngsters.
one more year is all i'd give our coach - just seems to be missing that winner's ingredient. be it courage, luck, or confidence. afl's daniel kowalski.
I have to say, I didn't miss footy at all last weekend and was not at all disappointed that St Kilda weren't playing and was pretty much relieved that I didn't "have to" watch them, at least for one week. I used to practically live for the St Kilda games every weekend, but lately it's pretty much been a "chore" to go and watch them. Given our relatively disappointing crowd figures, this year especially, I dare say I'm far from Robinson Caruso on this one.
YOU GET WHAT YOU SETTLE FOR.
You seem confused. i never once said I had inside knowledge. Maybe read what I said instead of imagining it. I said I had more knowledge than you, not inside knowledge. I know it is hard to believe someone could have have more knowledge but I think the other way. It is hard to believe people actually dont.BigMart wrote:And plugger
Well leave it up to others to decide that....... I am not a big enough f***wit to announce something so pathetic....Get a grip
Go and read some more books this weekend, ill try and get a few kicks....you know about as much as anyone on here....two fifths of FA.
Its great how your close contacts within the club 1) give you so much inside knowledge. 2) if they do, you come on here and share it on a fan forum...
Anyone would think you are a confidant of Ross Lyon.
Reality....arm chair expert, just like me......
Again
Get a grip
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To the top
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I will qualify what I say by recording that I have only ever seen Walsh play when a Sandringham game is televised and able to be recorded.
But from what I have seen he has a long way to go - especially as most singing his praises want him either rucking of in a down the spine position.
He is not at that level and, when he is given a shot, it should fairly be in a support position, not a key position.
I admit that that factors in my philosophy that you are best served by introducing young talent into a side with a strong frame - and you can introduce them without the immediate pressure of performing against the competition's elite in key positions - or requiring immediate game influencing performances.
No doubt Walsh's build attracts attention.
But he has to be able to reasonably perform at AFL level - otherwise why pick him?
That goes for all of our younger players - and our more senior players as well.
And, to date, he has not been chosen by the selection panel - and continues to refine and improve his skills in the VFL.
By my assessments based on what I have seen, we have as few as 17 "walk up starts" - and that includes Hayes, Gardiner and Koschitzke who are all currently unavailable.
So any young player being introduced is going to struggle - because that number of "walk up starts" means the team is struggling - which it is.
In regards Cripps, he impressed and particularly by the way he absolutely hared in off the square at centre bounces, giving us an additional player.
Plus he knows where the goals are.
Hopefully he puts on a few kg's, does not lose his speed and improves to become a regular AFL player.
Because we need some!
But from what I have seen he has a long way to go - especially as most singing his praises want him either rucking of in a down the spine position.
He is not at that level and, when he is given a shot, it should fairly be in a support position, not a key position.
I admit that that factors in my philosophy that you are best served by introducing young talent into a side with a strong frame - and you can introduce them without the immediate pressure of performing against the competition's elite in key positions - or requiring immediate game influencing performances.
No doubt Walsh's build attracts attention.
But he has to be able to reasonably perform at AFL level - otherwise why pick him?
That goes for all of our younger players - and our more senior players as well.
And, to date, he has not been chosen by the selection panel - and continues to refine and improve his skills in the VFL.
By my assessments based on what I have seen, we have as few as 17 "walk up starts" - and that includes Hayes, Gardiner and Koschitzke who are all currently unavailable.
So any young player being introduced is going to struggle - because that number of "walk up starts" means the team is struggling - which it is.
In regards Cripps, he impressed and particularly by the way he absolutely hared in off the square at centre bounces, giving us an additional player.
Plus he knows where the goals are.
Hopefully he puts on a few kg's, does not lose his speed and improves to become a regular AFL player.
Because we need some!
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spert
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I have a feeling that McQ will get a game to swing through the centre with Steven and maybe Armo, as he seems to do that midfield role OK at Sandy. I'm a bit disappointed that some of our younger Sandy Saints players are not really busting a gut for selection -not much consistancy, and I suppose that's why McQ got the nod. I'm not convinced about Lynch and Johnson as I think they are good VFL grade players but maybe not good enough at the next level. Ledger and Cripps will make it at senior level, Siposs looks a bit lazy to me, but very talented and should go on to bigger things, and Walsh might have to wait until 2012, but could be a useful utility player. Looking at the seniors, I think Gamble is doing enough effective things when those around him are not- Schneider and Milne are just not doing enough, and Roo obviously is out of form, and that's the forward line pretty much. Polo seems to be a borderline player- almost but not quite.
You seem quite frustrated lately DS, just curious to understand why?desertsaint wrote:ross aint a risk taker - mini in was always likely. don't brgudge him a chance, he's earned it. but to see names like polo, gamble, raph in there? revolving doors at the moment.
walsh probably wishing he'd been picked up elsewhere.
i want to play finals just to blood the kids, but doubt they'd get to play in one.
getting past the stage where a risk needs to be taken.
almost hope we lose so ross gives up and plays the youngsters.
one more year is all i'd give our coach - just seems to be missing that winner's ingredient. be it courage, luck, or confidence. afl's daniel kowalski.
What if Lynch and Ledger end up being ins, it's a bit premature to criticise what could be an emergency list. Would having their names compliment the likes of Steven and McEvoy be enough of a 'sprinkling' of youth to satisfy you?
Would you be upset if say a Mini replaced a Bakes, given there is about 6 years between them?
I personally wouldn't be too upset if Gamble retains his spot, he looks to me to be trying to evolve as a footballer, and given he has still only played 29 games...and at 23...probably not fair we write him off yet given one of our other smaller forwards is over 30.
He has also kicked goals in the last fortnight, something that in a reality, a couple of other forwards haven't been able to do.
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InkerSaint
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You would have to say that our most convincing performance this season has been the R11 win over Freo.SainterK wrote:What if Lynch and Ledger end up being ins, it's a bit premature to criticise what could be an emergency list.
A final selection of Armitage, Baker, Lynch, Ledger would mean 4 changes from that team: Gamble for Siposs, Baker for Blake, Gram for Winmar, and Ledger for Polo.
A little less youth... and not necessarily a weaker side.
What's giving me the heebeegeebees is that our performances since then have arguably been rubbish.
A larger sprinkling of kids would give us an "excuse to lose".
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
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St Chris
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I think Lynch is a skilled footballer - better than some of the GOP's we have running around in the seniors ATM.
He needs to get to more contests, and need to be stronger defensively to hold down a spot across half back. This will lead to him getting his hands on the footy more than he has in his 2 games to date.
He'll benefit from a good run in the side. Give him 4-6 weeks of footy to really settle into the speed and commitment required at AFL level. Then we might have another promising kid to call on.
He needs to get to more contests, and need to be stronger defensively to hold down a spot across half back. This will lead to him getting his hands on the footy more than he has in his 2 games to date.
He'll benefit from a good run in the side. Give him 4-6 weeks of footy to really settle into the speed and commitment required at AFL level. Then we might have another promising kid to call on.
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Dr Spaceman
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desertsaint
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a good post sainterk, and deserving of a reply. i'm a bit knackered having been following the boy around at the show all day, and have fireworks to go tonight (yay for fireworks)., so wll be brief.SainterK wrote:You seem quite frustrated lately DS, just curious to understand why?desertsaint wrote:ross aint a risk taker - mini in was always likely. don't brgudge him a chance, he's earned it. but to see names like polo, gamble, raph in there? revolving doors at the moment.
walsh probably wishing he'd been picked up elsewhere.
i want to play finals just to blood the kids, but doubt they'd get to play in one.
getting past the stage where a risk needs to be taken.
almost hope we lose so ross gives up and plays the youngsters.
one more year is all i'd give our coach - just seems to be missing that winner's ingredient. be it courage, luck, or confidence. afl's daniel kowalski.
What if Lynch and Ledger end up being ins, it's a bit premature to criticise what could be an emergency list. Would having their names compliment the likes of Steven and McEvoy be enough of a 'sprinkling' of youth to satisfy you?
Would you be upset if say a Mini replaced a Bakes, given there is about 6 years between them?
I personally wouldn't be too upset if Gamble retains his spot, he looks to me to be trying to evolve as a footballer, and given he has still only played 29 games...and at 23...probably not fair we write him off yet given one of our other smaller forwards is over 30.
He has also kicked goals in the last fortnight, something that in a reality, a couple of other forwards haven't been able to do.
frustrated at having the same problem with our attacking strcuture (personnel & plan) for some time and little evidence to see this has been a high enough priority to resolve through trading or development.
i think tudor has been a massive loss for us. but even with him we were short a couple of quality forwards and our emphasis in attack remained on accountability rather than making our opponents accountable.
happier with the final team than any other possibility yesterday, but not confident we have any capable of holding petrie, and we will have a glaring problem in attack that even an inform nick and milne can't cover.
i want us to fast track development of our possible forward options. take the risk and give them time to learn in preparation for next year.
i believe we owe lenny a legitimate shot at the flag next year, and would hate to see his career peter out like harvey's did during ross's first two years where any chance was shot by totally changing our game plan, without developing the youth.
okay - not so brief
keep up the support sainterk - i enjoy your posts and positivity!
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
Problem is p66
You dont.....plain and simple
Infact, i rarely read any analysis of the actual game from you....you just like to oppose anyone who has an opinion differing to the lyon regime, and highlights any of the obvious failures that have been evident. Seriously You take pot shots....which is easy to do....you are far from insightful. Basically you just antagonise, possibly for entertainment - not sure
A recent example of your insinuation of inside knowledge was your confident appraisal that cripps will be back before season end, not for stk, but for sandy....to play finals
How the fcuk could you even guess that, let alone be so confident that you corrected others opinion to your right one.....
Basically he has 8 weeks from taking his first running steps, to overtake fully fit players with more experience, and in many cases...ability
If you know more than me about footy....i know fcuk all...because you dont come across as having to much of a clue...
You dont.....plain and simple
Infact, i rarely read any analysis of the actual game from you....you just like to oppose anyone who has an opinion differing to the lyon regime, and highlights any of the obvious failures that have been evident. Seriously You take pot shots....which is easy to do....you are far from insightful. Basically you just antagonise, possibly for entertainment - not sure
A recent example of your insinuation of inside knowledge was your confident appraisal that cripps will be back before season end, not for stk, but for sandy....to play finals
How the fcuk could you even guess that, let alone be so confident that you corrected others opinion to your right one.....
Basically he has 8 weeks from taking his first running steps, to overtake fully fit players with more experience, and in many cases...ability
If you know more than me about footy....i know fcuk all...because you dont come across as having to much of a clue...
Joffa, ill try to put aside my 'agenda' towards arryn....And just ask why he played an impressive game and johnson did not.....
I did not see it that way....
I believe arryn has been super impressive in patches in the afl.....exceeding his and the coaching staffs expectstion for an 18yo.....given hard work i cannot see any reason he will not make it, on evidence....i really hope so, and have said nothing different....please outline where i did
In the vfl he has played well except for two games....frankston, collingwood....that is a good effort for a kid with no pre season and an undersize frame
Johnson has had a great year, injury aside.....one of the most dangerous fwds in the vfl.....will not make the jump to afl and have a similar impact to arryn....because arryn is simply a better footballer....will just has a bigger body
I did not see it that way....
I believe arryn has been super impressive in patches in the afl.....exceeding his and the coaching staffs expectstion for an 18yo.....given hard work i cannot see any reason he will not make it, on evidence....i really hope so, and have said nothing different....please outline where i did
In the vfl he has played well except for two games....frankston, collingwood....that is a good effort for a kid with no pre season and an undersize frame
Johnson has had a great year, injury aside.....one of the most dangerous fwds in the vfl.....will not make the jump to afl and have a similar impact to arryn....because arryn is simply a better footballer....will just has a bigger body
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saintsRrising
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Why would they play johnson he only kicked 5 goals last week and played well the week before.goddardisgod wrote:No Johnson or Walsh......
Hmmmm....
Walsh is not what we wont he is big strong can mark play forward back ruck and is a clever player.Has been named in Sandys best a few weeks running.
But i guess they would be good for Gws bait for next season they are looking for these sort of players.We could also through in Stanley,Archer, Cahill they wont get a game any time soon at the saints so traid them so we at least get some picks,or players for them. Win Win all round.
Hope you enjoyed the fireworks, was that the motor show? You're boy would have enjoyed that combo I'm sure.desertsaint wrote:a good post sainterk, and deserving of a reply. i'm a bit knackered having been following the boy around at the show all day, and have fireworks to go tonight (yay for fireworks)., so wll be brief.SainterK wrote:You seem quite frustrated lately DS, just curious to understand why?desertsaint wrote:ross aint a risk taker - mini in was always likely. don't brgudge him a chance, he's earned it. but to see names like polo, gamble, raph in there? revolving doors at the moment.
walsh probably wishing he'd been picked up elsewhere.
i want to play finals just to blood the kids, but doubt they'd get to play in one.
getting past the stage where a risk needs to be taken.
almost hope we lose so ross gives up and plays the youngsters.
one more year is all i'd give our coach - just seems to be missing that winner's ingredient. be it courage, luck, or confidence. afl's daniel kowalski.
What if Lynch and Ledger end up being ins, it's a bit premature to criticise what could be an emergency list. Would having their names compliment the likes of Steven and McEvoy be enough of a 'sprinkling' of youth to satisfy you?
Would you be upset if say a Mini replaced a Bakes, given there is about 6 years between them?
I personally wouldn't be too upset if Gamble retains his spot, he looks to me to be trying to evolve as a footballer, and given he has still only played 29 games...and at 23...probably not fair we write him off yet given one of our other smaller forwards is over 30.
He has also kicked goals in the last fortnight, something that in a reality, a couple of other forwards haven't been able to do.
frustrated at having the same problem with our attacking strcuture (personnel & plan) for some time and little evidence to see this has been a high enough priority to resolve through trading or development.
i think tudor has been a massive loss for us. but even with him we were short a couple of quality forwards and our emphasis in attack remained on accountability rather than making our opponents accountable.
happier with the final team than any other possibility yesterday, but not confident we have any capable of holding petrie, and we will have a glaring problem in attack that even an inform nick and milne can't cover.
i want us to fast track development of our possible forward options. take the risk and give them time to learn in preparation for next year.
i believe we owe lenny a legitimate shot at the flag next year, and would hate to see his career peter out like harvey's did during ross's first two years where any chance was shot by totally changing our game plan, without developing the youth.
okay - not so brief
keep up the support sainterk - i enjoy your posts and positivity!
I just don't want it to be down to Roo and Milne kicking a bag, something about that just screams same old to me, and surely to the opposition coaches?
If they do bonus, but I personally would love them to structure up that the players running forward of the ball...are the runners.
This seemed to be a clear direction that the club took against Freo in Perth, and I thought it worked to our strengths.
Big bodies in the middle, fleet footed outside types carrying the ball, Milne Schneider...and even Roo having their turn at rotating on the ball and pushing forward.
Gamble can stay deep....Roo can hang around there for sure, just mix it up though.
BigMart wrote:Problem is p66
You dont.....plain and simple
Infact, i rarely read any analysis of the actual game from you....you just like to oppose anyone who has an opinion differing to the lyon regime, and highlights any of the obvious failures that have been evident. Seriously You take pot shots....which is easy to do....you are far from insightful. Basically you just antagonise, possibly for entertainment - not sure
A recent example of your insinuation of inside knowledge was your confident appraisal that cripps will be back before season end, not for stk, but for sandy....to play finals
How the fcuk could you even guess that, let alone be so confident that you corrected others opinion to your right one.....
Basically he has 8 weeks from taking his first running steps, to overtake fully fit players with more experience, and in many cases...ability
If you know more than me about footy....i know fcuk all...because you dont come across as having to much of a clue...
post of the year....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
saint58 wrote:Why would they play johnson he only kicked 5 goals last week and played well the week before.goddardisgod wrote:No Johnson or Walsh......
Hmmmm....
Walsh is not what we wont he is big strong can mark play forward back ruck and is a clever player.Has been named in Sandys best a few weeks running.
But i guess they would be good for Gws bait for next season they are looking for these sort of players.We could also through in Stanley,Archer, Cahill they wont get a game any time soon at the saints so traid them so we at least get some picks,or players for them. Win Win all round.
f*** you are ignorant....so i guess you are a filth supporter...
throw...not through
and
trade.....not traid...ffs.....
if you want to talk to the adults ......finish primary school first....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
What is your view about Siposs coming in to the seniors Marto? Be interested to hear that. Does he need to improve in the VFL first? He seems like the sort of player who himself plays better when he plays with good players.... Many others seem to get lost due to the attentions of playing against better players.BigMart wrote:Joffa, ill try to put aside my 'agenda' towards arryn....And just ask why he played an impressive game and johnson did not.....
I did not see it that way....
I believe arryn has been super impressive in patches in the afl.....exceeding his and the coaching staffs expectstion for an 18yo.....given hard work i cannot see any reason he will not make it, on evidence....i really hope so, and have said nothing different....please outline where i did
In the vfl he has played well except for two games....frankston, collingwood....that is a good effort for a kid with no pre season and an undersize frame
Johnson has had a great year, injury aside.....one of the most dangerous fwds in the vfl.....will not make the jump to afl and have a similar impact to arryn....because arryn is simply a better footballer....will just has a bigger body
Btw, please keep up the insightful postings. Your footy thoughts are well appreciated by me and many others on the forum.
Your views on p66 are spot on. He is the single best example of why we would be better off with an 'ignore' function on this site.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
BigMart wrote:Problem is p66
You dont.....plain and simple
Infact, i rarely read any analysis of the actual game from you....you just like to oppose anyone who has an opinion differing to the lyon regime, and highlights any of the obvious failures that have been evident. Seriously You take pot shots....which is easy to do....you are far from insightful. Basically you just antagonise, possibly for entertainment - not sure
A recent example of your insinuation of inside knowledge was your confident appraisal that cripps will be back before season end, not for stk, but for sandy....to play finals
How the fcuk could you even guess that, let alone be so confident that you corrected others opinion to your right one.....
Basically he has 8 weeks from taking his first running steps, to overtake fully fit players with more experience, and in many cases...ability
If you know more than me about footy....i know fcuk all...because you dont come across as having to much of a clue...
I never said I had a lot of footy knowledge and never said i have inside information but IMO Cripps may be back before the end of the year. Sorry I have that opinion. Anyway you did get one thing right, you do know f*** all about footy and I do know more than you. May not be a lot but hey it doesnt have to be to have more knowledge than you.
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InkerSaint
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Still having a whinge about team selection, I thought you were Ross's no. 1 selection adviser, what happened?saint58 wrote:Why would they play johnson he only kicked 5 goals last week and played well the week before.goddardisgod wrote:No Johnson or Walsh......
Hmmmm....
Walsh is not what we wont he is big strong can mark play forward back ruck and is a clever player.Has been named in Sandys best a few weeks running.
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
Richter, i think your spot on....Arryn will find it easier as those around him become more skilled....He is already at afl level skill and abilty wise....
Fitness is his biggest issue, at afl level....and can only come with time. If he has the work ethic, he will be better than good. He will adapt to afl with even more ease with more running ability and repeat effort ability...then he will get a lot more ball, because he can get to more contests...We can see his impact with ball in hand...
In the vfl his issue is strength.....lack of cleaner delivery, smaller grounds and slower ball movements require more one on one body.....and generally against bigger men...
Fitness is his biggest issue, at afl level....and can only come with time. If he has the work ethic, he will be better than good. He will adapt to afl with even more ease with more running ability and repeat effort ability...then he will get a lot more ball, because he can get to more contests...We can see his impact with ball in hand...
In the vfl his issue is strength.....lack of cleaner delivery, smaller grounds and slower ball movements require more one on one body.....and generally against bigger men...