Geelong and St Kilda

[fingers]

What's different ? We have both been in the top 4 for the last 3-5 years. They have a bunch of kids coming through that seem stronger than ours. Notwithstanding that they are probably the same vintage as Armitage and Stevens.

Anyone got a view as to how they've managed it?

[SainterK]

They didn't play in a couple of premierships and walk away with none.

[fingers]

They didn't play in a couple of premierships and walk away with none.

What's that got to do with their younger players??

[plugger66]

What's different ? We have both been in the top 4 for the last 3-5 years. They have a bunch of kids coming through that seem stronger than ours. Notwithstanding that they are probably the same vintage as Armitage and Stevens.

Anyone got a view as to how they've managed it?

Better recruiting but the big difference IMO is that they havent had the disappointment of losing 2 GF's in 2 years.

[SainterK]

They didn't play in a couple of premierships and walk away with none.

What's that got to do with their younger players??

Not sure, but it's our senior players that have been out of form.

[fingers]

So we think that the difference in how their young players are performing is the mental state of the senior players?

[SainterK]

So we think that the difference in how their young players are performing is the mental state of the senior players?

We?

Nah, just my opinion fingers.

[fingers]

So we think that the difference in how their young players are performing is the mental state of the senior players?

We?

Nah, just my opinion fingers.

I say "we" cause there's only 3 of us here LOL.

Interesting. POV. Care to expand?

[plugger66]

So we think that the difference in how their young players are performing is the mental state of the senior players?

Like most young players they need the senior players to be doing well to get the best out of them. Our senior players seem mentally stuffed after the 2 losses and because they arent performing that puts pressure on the young guys. Also as I said I think their young guys may just be better than ours.

[dragit]

A couple of things
• Stand alone VFL side
• Father-son rule has kept them strong (using their first pick on Selwood instead Hawkins + more), whereas our advantage of priority picks finished ten years ago
• They have continued to draft young players right through their successful period, meanwhile we have brought in many, many recycled plonkers and although they have usually been taken late in the draft they are still clogging the list,
• They still don't rely on 1 or 2 big forwards to get a score, meanwhile Riewoldt is triple-teamed every week, because the reality is if he is down we lose…
• They have a genuine home ground advantage
• They have a new coach who seems to have livened them up
• They have won 2 flags, monkey off their backs and just look to be enjoying their football Vs 2 GF losses by an inch, our players still look broken

should i keep going?

[fingers]

So we think that the difference in how their young players are performing is the mental state of the senior players?

Like most young players they need the senior players to be doing well to get the best out of them. Our senior players seem mentally stuffed after the 2 losses and because they arent performing that puts pressure on the young guys. Also as I said I think their young guys may just be better than ours.

The last sentence is the one that I am interested in. I get the player confidence thing and agree completely.

Do you think we have just recruited badly? Luck? Would the programs and approach to younger players be dramatically different?

Geelong haven't really had any youngsters come through before this year have they?

[Junction Oval]

Interesting question. If we knew the reason, we would be on top of the ladder.

Could be one, or all of :
- GF loss hangover by our top 6 and others,
- poor coaching/mentoring,
- too many new assistant coaches this year,
- lack of good new blood pushing up,
- move to Seaford,
- wrong football boots this year

[SainterK]

So we think that the difference in how their young players are performing is the mental state of the senior players?

We?

Nah, just my opinion fingers.

I say "we" cause there's only 3 of us here LOL.

Interesting. POV. Care to expand?

Like plugger said, I think the mindset of the senior guys hugely impacts the kids.

As to if their kids are better, hard to know, wonder how they'd go in a side that was mentally struggling.

[degruch]

Geelong haven't really had any youngsters come through before this year have they?

No. And remember how 'dead' they were at the start of the year? 13 STRAIGHT!

Their youngsters have had a much better environment to come into though...it must be fun playing for the Saints this year, seeing any good work you do pail into insignificance next to speculation on senior stars' form, club stability, outside limelight huggers, etc, etc. They have a coach with a clean slate and nothing to lose, star players in reasonable form, and something to prove (the aforementioned 'death' of their team).

Good on 'em I say, I hope we can do the same.

[dragit]

It's still their last crack IMO
matty scumbag, dasher moron, cling, ottens, mooney, wojinski, pods - all on the way out… enright, chapman & corey approaching 30 too…
We'll see how good those kids are when they are without these older guys.

[To the top]

It is far easier to slot players in when you have your class players performing at the top of their game.

For a raft of reasons including injury and limited pre-seasons, and Fisher apart, we do not currently have the luxury of our senior players performing.

Look at our goal scoring list - then divide it by the number of games played.

[perfectionist]

One thing you can't predict is how good the opposition might be in any year. If your team has a standout year and the rest are off the pace, or your main opponent gets eliminated early in the finals, then that's luck. It happened in 1999, 2002 and 2007. If your opponent wastes most of its chances in the GF and you make the most of all of yours, that's luck. It happened in 1998, 2009 and (almost) 2010. Alas, we are always on the wrong side of the equation.

Other than that, the one thing you must do is eliminate poor kicks from the team - they will always let you down. Getting the ball and handing it to the opposition is worse than not getting it at all. Sam Gilbert is the number one offender. In both the 2009 and 2010 GFs he kicked poorly at crucial stages of the last quarter. You must churn these players like Thompson did and Malthouse has done.

[SaintPav]

Two little things called talent and skill help a lot.

[StSteven]

No. And remember how 'dead' they were at the start of the year? 13 STRAIGHT!

Are they bringing a video out?............ouch..!!!!

[degruch]

No. And remember how 'dead' they were at the start of the year? 13 STRAIGHT!

Are they bringing a video out?............ouch..!!!!

That's just mean. I did find the 'streak' video a little embarrassing though...putting a lid on it...not.

[3rd generation saint]

They haven't had some misguided flake of a teenage girl causing havoc in the off, pre and during the season.
Winning those premierships though is a huge difference, they got the ultimate reward for their hard work, while we now have a gorilla on our back.
I am more than happy to miss the finals this year, have a quiet off season with some good smart recruiting targeting what we need, then coming back for a big crack at it in 2012.
Naturally we should still always try to win games, but also try and work out a totally new gameplan.
Afterall, RL was the original architect of the current full ground press, surely he can figure out a way to make it obsolete.
Oh, and when I say smart recruiting, we need someone to make our forwards, team a hell of a lot more potent in the scoring department that we are now.
As much as it pains me too say this, they should consider Carey for just that role.

[saint66au]

So how do we explain Hawthorn? Sure theyve won a flag but a big chunk of their senior players were out injured or suspended on Friday night...and their kids just took up the slack superbly

People say that Siposs, Cripps, Ledger etc are the future, but what of Stanley, Heyne, Winmar, Cahill, Lynch etc? Next year these blokes will be 3rd or 4th year players...and thats where Hawthorn and Geelong are getting their influx of good kids from

Ive said it before, but if that "era" of draftees doesnt stand up next year, sadly I cant see our slide being reversed.

[perfectionist]

...People say that Siposs, Cripps, Ledger etc are the future, but what of Stanley, Heyne, Winmar, Cahill, Lynch etc?...

The first three can play, or more precisely, kick. The others are not AFL players, with the possible exception of Nick Winmar, who deserves another year or two. We actually did well this year in recruiting. It's the top up from rejects philosophy over the last three years that bites us on the bum. On the other hand, a few straighter kicks or a better bounce would have many looking at the same events through different eyes.

[faircatfan]

Personally i think you guys rolled the dice to a degree and took a few recyclyed players ( perhaps too many?), in reality you missed 2 GF wins narrowly. The cats had a premiership in the bank and could afford to pick up all kids. Selwood went number 7 from memory, so plenty of teams had a chance before the cats snared him. IF jesse Smith had stood up it would have been hailed a touch of genius, alas he didnt and it could be argued it was waste of a pick

[SainterK]

Personally i think you guys rolled the dice to a degree and took a few recyclyed players ( perhaps too many?), in reality you missed 2 GF wins narrowly. The cats had a premiership in the bank and could afford to pick up all kids. Selwood went number 7 from memory, so plenty of teams had a chance before the cats snared him. IF jesse Smith had stood up it would have been hailed a touch of genius, alas he didnt and it could be argued it was waste of a pick

Thanks for the input, while I may not agree entirely, it's still very 'fair' cat fan.