2 Changes since Round 1
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- SaintWodonga
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2 Changes since Round 1
We have gone full circle, with all the changes, we have only 2 new ones since the 1st time we played the Cats:
Snides in for mini
Steven in for Lenny
I reckon Ross is going for the stronger bodies, we should have one last time, no reason the Cats can't have the 1st loss on Saturday night!
Snides in for mini
Steven in for Lenny
I reckon Ross is going for the stronger bodies, we should have one last time, no reason the Cats can't have the 1st loss on Saturday night!
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Probably why the kids aren't in there. They haven't earnt there spot. When they do they will stay in,ala J.StevenSaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
Bring back the Lockett era
- degruch
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That's stretching the bow a little...Geelong aren't a bunch of kids, so RL's picked a team to match them physically, as well as tactically. You'd rather we pitted half a team of guys with less than 20 games under their belt against what's still essentially a double premiership team? I hope they prove good selections, but I certainly don't think it shows any lack of faith in our developing players.SaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
- Enrico_Misso
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Geelong have also stuck by the kids they have injected which has essentially fast tracked them in development. Menzel Vardy and Duncan are not dropped on one or two games if playing poor. Admittedly Geelong are on top so can do what they want.
Some times you have to face facts and players like Gilbert and Gram are not earning their spots. Fair enough Gram was sent back to Sandy but did he really deserve a recall? A two game smack on the wrist is all that it was.
As for J. steven well maybe he is lucky that L. Hayes is not up for selection otherwise the joy of seeing him develop would not happen. The joy is knowing that Steven, Hayes, armo, and Montagna will be there next year.
You have also seen Big Mc become just short of A grade in a short time but with the opportunity that injury has given I am sure he will be A grade sooner rather than later.
By the way, I have no probs with Blake coming back as I see it releasing Dal a bit more.
Some times you have to face facts and players like Gilbert and Gram are not earning their spots. Fair enough Gram was sent back to Sandy but did he really deserve a recall? A two game smack on the wrist is all that it was.
As for J. steven well maybe he is lucky that L. Hayes is not up for selection otherwise the joy of seeing him develop would not happen. The joy is knowing that Steven, Hayes, armo, and Montagna will be there next year.
You have also seen Big Mc become just short of A grade in a short time but with the opportunity that injury has given I am sure he will be A grade sooner rather than later.
By the way, I have no probs with Blake coming back as I see it releasing Dal a bit more.
- Con Gorozidis
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By my reckoning since 2009 Grand Final:
Saints have made 6 changes (4 forced)
Cats have made 7 changes (4 forced)
So quite similar use of personnel really. Obviously they also have a new coach.
Psychologically they are probably fresher than us considering what happened in 2010 . But I would expect a close game.
Saints have made 6 changes (4 forced)
Cats have made 7 changes (4 forced)
So quite similar use of personnel really. Obviously they also have a new coach.
Psychologically they are probably fresher than us considering what happened in 2010 . But I would expect a close game.
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True - but they have Menzel, Vardy, Duncan & Taylor Hunt playing. That's a fair bit of youthful enthusiasm and potential there.degruch wrote:That's stretching the bow a little...Geelong aren't a bunch of kids, so RL's picked a team to match them physically, as well as tactically. You'd rather we pitted half a team of guys with less than 20 games under their belt against what's still essentially a double premiership team? I hope they prove good selections, but I certainly don't think it shows any lack of faith in our developing players.SaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
We don't really have any kids playing - McEvoy and Steven are in their 4th seasons!!
The Saints are coming!
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- ThePunter
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Our changes from the 2009 GF are:
Out: King, Hayes, Ball, Gardiner, Koschitzke, McQualter.
In: Steven, McEvoy, Peake, Gwilt, Armitage, Gamble.
There's definitely some youth added there.
Geelong:
Out: Harley, Ablett, Hawkins, Byrnes, Blake, Rooke, Selwood.
In: J Hunt, T Hunt, Menzel, Lonergan, Duncan, Podsiadly, Vardy.
Josh Hunt, Lonergan and Podsiadly aren't exactly young.
Seems like a similar blend of youth and talent coming in for both teams.
Out: King, Hayes, Ball, Gardiner, Koschitzke, McQualter.
In: Steven, McEvoy, Peake, Gwilt, Armitage, Gamble.
There's definitely some youth added there.
Geelong:
Out: Harley, Ablett, Hawkins, Byrnes, Blake, Rooke, Selwood.
In: J Hunt, T Hunt, Menzel, Lonergan, Duncan, Podsiadly, Vardy.
Josh Hunt, Lonergan and Podsiadly aren't exactly young.
Seems like a similar blend of youth and talent coming in for both teams.
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So winning 3 out of the last 4 doesn't allow the team who have won to be rewarded and keep their spotsSaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
Stupid comment
- mad saint guy
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You don't think the form of Lynch, Walsh and Johnson in the VFL counts for anything over mediocre performances in both levels?jonesy wrote:Probably why the kids aren't in there. They haven't earnt there spot. When they do they will stay in,ala J.StevenSaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
Some of the kids may not be demanding and cementing a spot, but neither are the older players yet they keep getting games. That the situation where the coaches must put the kids in preference over known quantities that aren't up to it. Maybe Gram will get 20 touches (about 8 effective) compared to Ledger's 15 but for the sake of the future he should be in the team. And I can't believe Gamble is getting picked over Lynch, Siposs and Johnson. He is probably the worst St Kilda player I have ever seen live; he gets outbodied, scrambles for a handball to no one and falls over while his opponent runs the ball out uncontested. I'd take Charlie Gardiner over him, and that's saying something.
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So play the kids but earn a spot.SaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
Don't ever bet on the nose, do you Wal. Each way man aren't you?
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
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Who are Walsh, Lynch and Johnson going to replace?mad saint guy wrote:You don't think the form of Lynch, Walsh and Johnson in the VFL counts for anything over mediocre performances in both levels?jonesy wrote:Probably why the kids aren't in there. They haven't earnt there spot. When they do they will stay in,ala J.StevenSaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
Some of the kids may not be demanding and cementing a spot, but neither are the older players yet they keep getting games. That the situation where the coaches must put the kids in preference over known quantities that aren't up to it. Maybe Gram will get 20 touches (about 8 effective) compared to Ledger's 15 but for the sake of the future he should be in the team. And I can't believe Gamble is getting picked over Lynch, Siposs and Johnson. He is probably the worst St Kilda player I have ever seen live; he gets outbodied, scrambles for a handball to no one and falls over while his opponent runs the ball out uncontested. I'd take Charlie Gardiner over him, and that's saying something.
Walsh is a key backman - So Fisher? Gilbert? Dawson? Gwilt?
NUP.
Lynch's best footy is played back.
DITTO.
Johnson must be close, but I suspect the thinking is our balance and forward press is better with more nimble med fwds up there.
These guys will get opportunities. You'd reckon Gilbo's one leg into the pair of poor games it'll take to send him to the B's and players do break down.
As for the inclusion of Blake - the young guys are showing potential, but their impact is reserved to moments rather than stretches. You do not put disappearing cameo types in the mix against Geelong. There is nothing to be gained out of that situation, especially if the season is showing glimpses of 'resurrectability'.
Win this we are in the mix with a week off to reset and the Roos to follow.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
- saintsRrising
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Exactly.ThePunter wrote:Our changes from the 2009 GF are:
Out: King, Hayes, Ball, Gardiner, Koschitzke, McQualter.
In: Steven, McEvoy, Peake, Gwilt, Armitage, Gamble.
There's definitely some youth added there.
Geelong:
Out: Harley, Ablett, Hawkins, Byrnes, Blake, Rooke, Selwood.
In: J Hunt, T Hunt, Menzel, Lonergan, Duncan, Podsiadly, Vardy.
Josh Hunt, Lonergan and Podsiadly aren't exactly young.
Seems like a similar blend of youth and talent coming in for both teams.
Look at the Pies this year too. While held up as the example of blooding youth...this year it is older players like Tarrant, Krakouer and Buckley that they have turned too.
I am however disappointed by losing Ledger lost his spot. So Gram will need to be on his game tonight.
However of all the teams in the AFL...the Cats are the ones tat we match up on best....
But to win against them you need hard pressure football for 4 quarters. a few lapses will let them in for a win.
So Lyon has turned to the more experienced players. Cats players are also on the whole big units...so harder bodies will help too.
If we can win it (or even just play well to get our mojo and self-belief back), then with a series of really winnable games coming up our season could be back on track.
However for 20123/2013 we do need some games into the likes of Ledger Sippos, Cripps (now injured....) etc. I am pretty sure that we will see Lyon continue to give them games throughout the year. But right this week Lyon is clearly of the view that we can win against the Cat's....and so he has picked the team that he believes is best able to accomplish that.
4 quarters of pressure and unrelenting grind.
Question is though whether all our players can rediscover their 100% commitment to night. Let's hope so.
PS: 2012 Saints
Sippos Stanley Milne
Schneider Roo Steven
Ray Hayes Joey
Gilbert Fisher Goddard
Demspter Zac Gwilt
Ben CJ Ledger
Cripps Dal Steven Armo........Peake, Gram (still in the mix)
* Expanded midfield for more rotations.
* Cripps and al can run off HB too when required.
* Hopefully with another preseason an weight training Stanley will be ready to play in the seniors as the tall forward and rotating ruck...and Sippos in the third forward role.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
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- Junction Oval
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I have a feeling that Ledger will get a run in place of Joey - very difficult to see Joey coming up this week.
It's clear that Ross has picked an experienced team against an equally experienced, big bodied team. We need to win this one, so I am ok with that.
Guy McKenna (G/Coast) was saying on radio the other day, that he was having to rest his younger players, because of the constant battering that they get at AFL level. Likely to be similar at the Saints.![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
It's clear that Ross has picked an experienced team against an equally experienced, big bodied team. We need to win this one, so I am ok with that.
Guy McKenna (G/Coast) was saying on radio the other day, that he was having to rest his younger players, because of the constant battering that they get at AFL level. Likely to be similar at the Saints.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
- Con Gorozidis
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Dunno. Since Lyon has been coach there have been very few late changes. He seems to pick the final side on Thursdays .Junction Oval wrote:I have a feeling that Ledger will get a run in place of Joey - very difficult to see Joey coming up this week.
It's clear that Ross has picked an experienced team against an equally experienced, big bodied team. We need to win this one, so I am ok with that.
Guy McKenna (G/Coast) was saying on radio the other day, that he was having to rest his younger players, because of the constant battering that they get at AFL level. Likely to be similar at the Saints.
But of course it happens from time to time if player is very sore .
- mad saint guy
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He had an excellent mini-game against a pathetic Brisbane side in the first week of the NAB cup but has been hopeless since then. He can take a flashy grab or run onto a certain goal every now and then but he has absolutely no physical strength, isn't quik it skilled and goes to ground far too easily. An Johnson has been much better at Sandy.gringo wrote:Gamble hasn't been a revelation at the saints but needs to be given a go. He did play badly last week at while he isn't quick he seems instinctive. He was amazing in the NAB cup remember. And he is getting a game because he played well in the Zebs.
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Good call.Enrico_Misso wrote:Perhaps Three changes.
I doubt very much that Monty will play.
He can barely walk.
I'm Skeptical about seeing Joey out there tonight. We may find Tom Ledger will remain in the side. Or was he not listed as an emergency?
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
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I tend to agree with you the players like ledger (has pace did well and kicks goals) the future of the club.SaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
We dont have a young key forward apparently? well Archer,Walsh both are playing well at sandy have big bodys and will not benifit from not playing tonight.
With rooy they could learn a lot about how to play as a forward and be up to speed by next season.Wouldnt it be great if we had a nother key forward to kick to who will compete and not be pushed off the ball like kosi.
The alterative is not to play them and then realise into next season that we are lacking a Key forward and its to late then we have to thing to the future.
I mentioned these 2 but there is allso stanley,johnson,lynch and sippos i dont wont a nother season like this one and before we know it its 3 years before these guys get enought experience to be dangerious.
It is not both ways. And tonight would clearly prove a point. Gram is not in good enough form to take the spot of any of the kids. If he was playing good footy at Sandy then bring him in but otherwise put some invaluable game time into the kids until players like Gram force their way in through good form rather than reputation.Thinline wrote:So play the kids but earn a spot.SaintWal wrote:I see this as a lack of trust in the kids from Ross, to me I am disappointed, it smells a bit of a desperate coach, I would rather see 22 players that earn their spot each week. I don't see that at present.
Don't ever bet on the nose, do you Wal. Each way man aren't you?