Gram has to play..

[Hallalj#3]

The main reason he has to play for the rest of the yr, is to improve he's currency with GWS, and perhaps we can get a decent pick because i don't think he is in our best 22 going forward, Clarke could also fit into that category however i still feel Raph if he gets confidence as he was getting last yr before he's injury and the beginning of 09 after he's 08 final series,he can be a quality player..

[noreason41]

As par the past 7 years, what happens when Raph gains confidence and then breaks down with injury again?

[GrumpyOne]

Welcome to the hurley burley!

It would be a sad state of affairs if we continue to play out of form players just to increase our trading currency. We are there to win games, and at this point in time we can still make finals.

Just pick the best 20 or 21 players, top up with youngsters as a future investment.

If anyone is not going to give 100% in the red white and black, they can see out their time in the black and yellow.

[degruch]

Welcome to the hurley burley!

It would be a sad state of affairs if we continue to play out of form players just to increase our trading currency. We are there to win games, and at this point in time we can still make finals.

The problem I see with this scenario is that he might play into form, and win a Norm Smith Medal on our way to a Premiership, and then we won't want to get rid of him! Kooky.

[SainterK]

I get frustrated because I see what Gram can do when he applies himself, after a lack lustre first half, some of his work in the last half was quality.

I have a perception of him, that he is lazy, maybe that is unfair, but just based on little bits and pieces you pick up here and there.

His best is best is, well best 22 worthy.

Maybe this rocket of showing he is not a given selection, will help improve the situation.

Ps, welcome to SS

[noreason41]

I get frustrated because I see what Gram can do when he applies himself, after a lack lustre first half, some of his work in the last half was quality.

I have a perception of him, that he is lazy, maybe that is unfair, but just based on little bits and pieces you pick up here and there.

His best is best is, well best 22 worthy.

Maybe this rocket of showing he is not a given selection, will help improve the situation.

Ps, welcome to SS

That's what he looks like. Waits for the easy ball too often.

[BigMart]

Surely we jest???

[Sainternist]

Yes, we need to persist with Gram so he can be acquired by GWS (Great Western Star butter).

[BigMart]

Softest player to play over 130 odd league games, dominate a grandfinal, finish high in team b&f's.....which makes him a lot harder than any of us...

Jason Gram has been a gun, has influenced many games.... Will retire, proud of a successful afl career...

Good thing, he will look to his coaches, team mates and stats for affirmation, and not a heap of arseclowns on here

[Saints Angel]

I agree that Gram looks lazy on the ground. It would be nice to see some urgency about his play. I think the injuries of late have caused him to slow down. He is nowhere as fast as he was and when he sinks his boot into the football to roost it a long way, the strength in his kicking is just not there anymore. I don't think he is in our best 22 anymore which is a sad state of affairs because it was great to watch him kick a long goal.

[SainterK]

Softest player to play over 130 odd league games, dominate a grandfinal, finish high in team b&f's.....which makes him a lot harder than any of us...

Jason Gram has been a gun, has influenced many games.... Will retire, proud of a successful afl career...

Good thing, he will look to his coaches, team mates and stats for affirmation, and not a heap of arseclowns on here

But not beyond being dropped when it's deserved.

I'd like to think when he looks to his coaches, teammates, he get's honesty, good bad or otherwise.

[degruch]

Jason Gram has been a gun, has influenced many games.... Will retire, proud of a successful afl career...

Possibly not with St Kilda if he doesn't lift by the end of the year. Point is, not many here questioned his endeavour until last year, so you'd have to have been in Greenland the last 18 months to have missed a dramatic form slump - so criticism of him has not gone unwarranted. Then he went on to publicly pot his team-mates without being able to back it up himself! ouch.

Not a brilliant game from him last night, but he wasn't alone. He'll be back next week regardless, hopefully in better form.

[Saints Angel]

I agree that Gram looks lazy on the ground. It would be nice to see some urgency about his play. I think the injuries of late have caused him to slow down. He is nowhere as fast as he was and when he sinks his boot into the football to roost it a long way, the strength in his kicking is just not there anymore. I don't think he is in our best 22 anymore which is a sad state of affairs because it was great to watch him kick a long goal.

[Cairnsman]

On last nights game I think Grammy needs defending.

He was clearly instructed to play on instinct and take the game on and go for a run and break the lines and move the ball quickly. Where it broke down I reckon was him not taking the first option once he was on the run and this could be becase the players weren't ready for the type of pace Gram can play the game at. The players would still be programmed into the old game plan. This new 'move it on quickly" thing is going to take a while t get used too.

I remember when Robert Walls stating in 2007 that a team usually takes about 18 months to adapt to a new game plan and whether you like it or not he was right in the end.

[mad saint guy]

He used to get away with having no physical presence because he was lightning quick and could roost it 60m. Various hip and groin injuries have slowed him down and restricted his kicking power, while the game has moved towards a style where every player must be able to apply pressure and tackle like a maniac, which Gram never has and never will do.

IMO he is finished and we would be much better off giving Smith some serious time in the seniors. What may save Gram is that we simply have a shocking lack of midfielders on the list and there aren't many pressuring for spots. Winmar is way off it and most of the others at Sandy are talls or defenders.

[noreason41]

On last nights game I think Grammy needs defending.

He was clearly instructed to play on instinct and take the game on and go for a run and break the lines and move the ball quickly. Where it broke down I reckon was him not taking the first option once he was on the run and this could be becase the players weren't ready for the type of pace Gram can play the game at. The players would still be programmed into the old game plan. This new 'move it on quickly" thing is going to take a while t get used too.

I remember when Robert Walls stating in 2007 that a team usually takes about 18 months to adapt to a new game plan and whether you like it or not he was right in the end.

Yup, Gram was poor because his team mates weren't ready for his 'blistering' pace.

Again, it's the players fault they don't adapt to Gram's wayward and skyhigh kicking.

Also their fault for not getting enough ball out to him, god forbid he gets into a pack and has to put his body on the line.

[maverick]

Softest player to play over 130 odd league games, dominate a grandfinal, finish high in team b&f's.....which makes him a lot harder than any of us...

Jason Gram has been a gun, has influenced many games.... Will retire, proud of a successful afl career...

Good thing, he will look to his coaches, team mates and stats for affirmation, and not a heap of arseclowns on here

Well said, 100% agree.

[BallBanger]

Why would you want to flick one of the few run and carry players we have...our side is very short on this type of player.

We should be looking at his positives not creating these negative perceptions on one of the few players we have wanting to take the opposition on and carry the ball forward...sick of negative play

[hungry for a premiership]

Ross Lyon said in the post-game presser something like "If we are going to be at our best we need Jason Gram up and about," so he's clearly valued internally and rightly so, he's had a very good career. He came into the side and virtually replaced Aussie Jones in that quarter-back type role. Who has had the better career? Gram or Aussie?

The problem is, it seems apparent that his best is now clearly behind him. Yes, he has lost that ability to kick long. When was the last time he bombed a goal from outside 50 on the run, which used to be his trademark?

I really hope he finds form soon.

[MCG-Unit]

Softest player to play over 130 odd league games, dominate a grandfinal, finish high in team b&f's.....which makes him a lot harder than any of us...

Jason Gram has been a gun, has influenced many games.... Will retire, proud of a successful afl career...

Good thing, he will look to his coaches, team mates and stats for affirmation, and not a heap of ****clowns on here

Well said, 100% agree.

100%

Gram - 22 poss, 7 cont, 4 clearances, 4 tackles, 16 'pressure acts' - in 78% game time

[Cairnsman]

On last nights game I think Grammy needs defending.

He was clearly instructed to play on instinct and take the game on and go for a run and break the lines and move the ball quickly. Where it broke down I reckon was him not taking the first option once he was on the run and this could be becase the players weren't ready for the type of pace Gram can play the game at. The players would still be programmed into the old game plan. This new 'move it on quickly" thing is going to take a while t get used too.

I remember when Robert Walls stating in 2007 that a team usually takes about 18 months to adapt to a new game plan and whether you like it or not he was right in the end.

Yup, Gram was poor because his team mates weren't ready for his 'blistering' pace.

Again, it's the players fault they don't adapt to Gram's wayward and skyhigh kicking.

Also their fault for not getting enough ball out to him, god forbid he gets into a pack and has to put his body on the line.

Yeah it probably sounded like I was making an excuse for him by saying his team mates couldn't read him but that's what I'm saying I suppose but it’s a catch 22. If he breaks the lines and gets into a run then the team needs to be running with him. They need to read the play and say hey Grammy's got the ball in his hands (he's going to run) so I better start running and running forward of the play, give him some link up options. Too many times last night the link up man wasn't available and that is a confidence thing. Look at the Pies at the moment. As soon as a player gains possession that player has about 2 or 3 players running flat out in front of the ball. It's a gamble because if yo stuff it up it comes back over your head with catastrophic symptoms. It's one thing to move the ball on quickly but if you haven't got players in front of you then the obvious sideways or backwards play is your only option. Sound familiar.

[noreason41]

On last nights game I think Grammy needs defending.

He was clearly instructed to play on instinct and take the game on and go for a run and break the lines and move the ball quickly. Where it broke down I reckon was him not taking the first option once he was on the run and this could be becase the players weren't ready for the type of pace Gram can play the game at. The players would still be programmed into the old game plan. This new 'move it on quickly" thing is going to take a while t get used too.

I remember when Robert Walls stating in 2007 that a team usually takes about 18 months to adapt to a new game plan and whether you like it or not he was right in the end.

Yup, Gram was poor because his team mates weren't ready for his 'blistering' pace.

Again, it's the players fault they don't adapt to Gram's wayward and skyhigh kicking.

Also their fault for not getting enough ball out to him, god forbid he gets into a pack and has to put his body on the line.

Yeah it probably sounded like I was making an excuse for him by saying his team mates couldn't read him but that's what I'm saying I suppose but it’s a catch 22. If he breaks the lines and gets into a run then the team needs to be running with him. They need to read the play and say hey Grammy's got the ball in his hands (he's going to run) so I better start running and running forward of the play, give him some link up options. Too many times last night the link up man wasn't available and that is a confidence thing. Look at the Pies at the moment. As soon as a player gains possession that player has about 2 or 3 players running flat out in front of the ball. It's a gamble because if yo stuff it up it comes back over your head with catastrophic symptoms. It's one thing to move the ball on quickly but if you haven't got players in front of you then the obvious sideways or backwards play is your only option. Sound familiar.

Agree re having players in front of you.

Both teams last night were very rare to run off their man or even to present an option. So many times we had the ball on the half back flank, and their was no one to kick it to, so we'd go to a contest.

Still, i didn't see Gram breaking that many lines, or gut running (whatsoever - zilch), just doesn't look interested.

My problem with him, is how often he commits. He's great when we're winning contests, but when they're even or we're losing them, he still gets disposals but doesn't do much with them.

[Hallalj#3]

I think most of you are missing the point.. Gram has been a very good player for us.. But it's list managment, trading Gram for maybe a couple of picks would be the best thing for the club going forward he's probably the only one I would want to lose that has a good reputation as a good player around the league.. I'd be dispointed as a member if the club weren't looking at trading some players to GWS for some picks..

[Hallalj#3]

I think most of you are missing the point.. Gram has been a very good player for us.. But it's list managment, trading Gram for maybe a couple of picks would be the best thing for the club going forward he's probably the only one I would want to lose that has a good reputation as a good player around the league.. I'd be dispointed as a member if the club weren't looking at trading some players to GWS for some picks..

[older saint]

Unless GWS has the same goose that paid Campbell Brown too much it won't happen.

Gram provides alot although my personal hate with him is his turnovers by foot.