might be something in that too....defacto wrote:who really cares. brown isnt playing this weekend is he?
the story that should be written is "do drug testers go to arizona?"
max engineered riewoldt's downfall: herald sun
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
Last edited by stinger on Sat 04 Jun 2011 11:07am, edited 1 time in total.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18579
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1905 times
- Been thanked: 841 times
Couple of things counted against Max in 2009 that you should consider.meher baba wrote:Max being left out of the team, when fit, towards the end of 2009, was an overly tough call that shouldn't have been made. There was a touch of "pride comes before a fall" around the club as we won game after game in 2009. The way Ball was treated in the second half of 2009 was part of it too.
When you are facing your toughest challenges you want your toughest, most experienced players in thr engine room. Lyon decided he could do without Max and almost without Luke. We scraped through the PF (should have lost) and came unstuck at the business end of the GF.
Lyon fully learnt his lesson and a barely-fit Baker was brought back for the big games in 2010. And did his job and, more importantly, gave confidence to those around him.
All IMO, of course.
1. Did his hamstring earlier in the season and was an injury risk.
2. Zac's form. He had a great season, barely putting a foot wrong. There was no spot for Max at full back and he didn't provide enough run to play elsewhere at that stage of his career.
Very tough call for a club legend like Max, but correct.
the big story would be if he refused to help in that area ffs.....crap story...Sainternist wrote:P.S. what a Johnny Come Lately article that Feral Scum article is.
I mean, weren't we discussing this like 8 months ago?
Jeez Louise! What a prfound football think-tank they have at that paper
Last edited by stinger on Sat 04 Jun 2011 11:12am, edited 1 time in total.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
meher baba wrote:Max being left out of the team, when fit, towards the end of 2009, was an overly tough call that shouldn't have been made. There was a touch of "pride comes before a fall" around the club as we won game after game in 2009. The way Ball was treated in the second half of 2009 was part of it too.
When you are facing your toughest challenges you want your toughest, most experienced players in thr engine room. Lyon decided he could do without Max and almost without Luke. We scraped through the PF (should have lost) and came unstuck at the business end of the GF.
Lyon fully learnt his lesson and a barely-fit Baker was brought back for the big games in 2010. And did his job and, more importantly, gave confidence to those around him.
All IMO, of course.
well said
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
- InkerSaint
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2132
- Joined: Wed 07 Jan 2009 3:06pm
You won't find me on record as having an opinion on Harves because I haven't got one. He's a favourite son but I have no idea on his merits as an assistant coach and nor would anyone else on this forum.Moods wrote:What a load of crap Inker. So b/c Harve's went to the blues when they weren't challenging and returned to the saints this year he's suddenly hailed as a hero returned? Or did he return b/c maybe, just maybe, Harve's isn't a great coach and no-one else would have him?
Except to say: I have no doubts at all about the professionalism of the football department at our club, and if they believe he adds value I trust them implicitly until led to believe otherwise.
Okay, fair point. I retract my comment about his motivations. I don't claim to know them.I heard Max speak the day after the GF, and I thought he showed tremendous character. Why would ANYONE refuse to go to a club just in case they played your former club in a GF? How many expected the pies to be our #1 challenger in 2010?
"... You want to pose a threat to the opposition in as many ways as you can, both defensively and offensively. We've got a responsibility to explore all those possibilities - and we will."
Knowledge of football equals knowledge of the law. Nil. If only your knowledge of footy equalled your knowledge of cleaning and being old.stinger wrote:might be something in that too....defacto wrote:who really cares. brown isnt playing this weekend is he?
the story that should be written is "do drug testers go to arizona?"
bingo. i am amazed how people can forget max's form in 2009. all they relate to now is "we lost grand final, max was dropped, max was an amazing player in his day, therefore we shouldnt have dropped max and would have been a 1-2 goal better team".SaintPav wrote:1 min 37 sec in:
the reality is in 2009, dawson was twice the player max was. the footage is just one snippet that sums up his season. when we played dawson and max, our backline looked disfunctional. also geelongs fwd line wasnt stacked with genuine fwds and had midfielders going fwd.
dawson + max would have been a disaster. max over dawson just wasnt warranted on form.
time to move on it was almost 2 years ago.
- matrix
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 21475
- Joined: Mon 21 May 2007 1:55pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 4 times
ummmm
maybe the other full back
the one that was on a drip and crook as f*** right up to the morn of the GF
max was raring to go
you could see he was
if he was not confident in his body im sure one of the greatest team players to ever pull on a STKFC jumper wouldve said something.
2cents
forget it
it was two years ago
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
maybe the other full back
the one that was on a drip and crook as f*** right up to the morn of the GF
max was raring to go
you could see he was
if he was not confident in his body im sure one of the greatest team players to ever pull on a STKFC jumper wouldve said something.
2cents
forget it
it was two years ago
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
- meher baba
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7196
- Joined: Mon 14 Aug 2006 6:49am
- Location: Tasmania
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 502 times
Dawson is a FAQ player at best who doesn't seem to have a lot of fans on here ATM. He's ok, but hardly the sort of player who's ever going to "demand" selection in a senior AFL side.defacto wrote:bingo. i am amazed how people can forget max's form in 2009. all they relate to now is "we lost grand final, max was dropped, max was an amazing player in his day, therefore we shouldnt have dropped max and would have been a 1-2 goal better team".SaintPav wrote:1 min 37 sec in:
the reality is in 2009, dawson was twice the player max was. the footage is just one snippet that sums up his season. when we played dawson and max, our backline looked disfunctional. also geelongs fwd line wasnt stacked with genuine fwds and had midfielders going fwd.
dawson + max would have been a disaster. max over dawson just wasnt
warranted on form.
time to move on it was almost 2 years ago.
Zac's form in 2009 was marginally better than Max's at the very most. In the second half of 2009 Ross was obsessed with his chessboard approach to coaching, rabbitting on about mobility, filling space, etc. Max and Ball didn't have enough mobility for Ross.
Alas, they were both "mobile" enough to run off to the Pies and conspire in our 2010 defeat.
There's nobody deserving of blame for any of this: it's just the way the cookie crumbles. But I'm still sad for Max that he didn't play in the 2009 GF and it maybe, just maybe, could have been better for the club too.
Last edited by meher baba on Sat 04 Jun 2011 12:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
I'm quite sure Steven King told us a fair bit about his team mates and how to beat them when he came across to the Saints.
And I'm quite sure that even if we had beaten the Cats in 2009, armed with this information, the big guy would be welcome back at Kardinia Park anytime he wanted to go back.
These things happen.
And I'm quite sure that even if we had beaten the Cats in 2009, armed with this information, the big guy would be welcome back at Kardinia Park anytime he wanted to go back.
These things happen.
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2007 1:05am
+1InkerSaint wrote:Remind me how many quarters Max played against Richmond in 09?
How was his performance against Essendon?
Some revisionist claptrap being spouted in here.
As for "just doing his job", I reckon there are plenty of places where he could have been involved. His choice of employer, timing and nature of his role smack of a personal vendetta.
What he chose to do was a dog act. At least this article puts to bed the fanciful notion that Max is still a "Saints man".
Failure cannot succeed in the face of persistence......
+2Seaford_Saint wrote:+1InkerSaint wrote:Remind me how many quarters Max played against Richmond in 09?
How was his performance against Essendon?
Some revisionist claptrap being spouted in here.
As for "just doing his job", I reckon there are plenty of places where he could have been involved. His choice of employer, timing and nature of his role smack of a personal vendetta.
What he chose to do was a dog act. At least this article puts to bed the fanciful notion that Max is still a "Saints man".
- st_Trav_ofWA
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8886
- Joined: Wed 13 Sep 2006 7:10pm
- Location: Perth
- Contact:
vendetta ??? are you mad?? the bloke is just doing his job ... would you expect the Scott boys to tell their team to go easy on Brisbane ??InkerSaint wrote:Remind me how many quarters Max played against Richmond in 09?
How was his performance against Essendon?
Some revisionist claptrap being spouted in here.
As for "just doing his job", I reckon there are plenty of places where he could have been involved. His choice of employer, timing and nature of his role smack of a personal vendetta.
What he chose to do was a dog act. At least this article puts to bed the fanciful notion that Max is still a "Saints man".
seriously get a friggin clue .... max did everything that was aked of him as a st kilda player once he is no longer a saints player he can do what he likes
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Well personally I blame Shane Wakelin for this whole mess!st_Trav_ofWA wrote:vendetta ??? are you mad?? the bloke is just doing his job ... would you expect the Scott boys to tell their team to go easy on Brisbane ??InkerSaint wrote:Remind me how many quarters Max played against Richmond in 09?
How was his performance against Essendon?
Some revisionist claptrap being spouted in here.
As for "just doing his job", I reckon there are plenty of places where he could have been involved. His choice of employer, timing and nature of his role smack of a personal vendetta.
What he chose to do was a dog act. At least this article puts to bed the fanciful notion that Max is still a "Saints man".
seriously get a friggin clue .... max did everything that was aked of him as a st kilda player once he is no longer a saints player he can do what he likes
He had no right to go to Collingwood once we delisted him. Where's the bloody loyalty?
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
- st_Trav_ofWA
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8886
- Joined: Wed 13 Sep 2006 7:10pm
- Location: Perth
- Contact:
Dr Spaceman wrote:Well personally I blame Shane Wakelin for this whole mess!st_Trav_ofWA wrote:vendetta ??? are you mad?? the bloke is just doing his job ... would you expect the Scott boys to tell their team to go easy on Brisbane ??InkerSaint wrote:Remind me how many quarters Max played against Richmond in 09?
How was his performance against Essendon?
Some revisionist claptrap being spouted in here.
As for "just doing his job", I reckon there are plenty of places where he could have been involved. His choice of employer, timing and nature of his role smack of a personal vendetta.
What he chose to do was a dog act. At least this article puts to bed the fanciful notion that Max is still a "Saints man".
seriously get a friggin clue .... max did everything that was aked of him as a st kilda player once he is no longer a saints player he can do what he likes
He had no right to go to Collingwood once we delisted him. Where's the bloody loyalty?
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
- perfectionist
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9022
- Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 3:06pm
- Has thanked: 60 times
- Been thanked: 347 times
Yep, agree. And as for him advising other clubs, good luck to him. It's one thing to tell a player how to beat someone, but it is the player who must be good enough to do it. Nick just needs to make a slight adjustment to avoid being prematurely moved off the ball, although it is easier said than done for any forward who doesn't rely on bulk and bullocking strength (Like Jon Brown).defacto wrote:bingo. i am amazed how people can forget max's form in 2009. all they relate to now is "we lost grand final, max was dropped, max was an amazing player in his day, therefore we shouldnt have dropped max and would have been a 1-2 goal better team".SaintPav wrote:1 min 37 sec in:
the reality is in 2009, dawson was twice the player max was. the footage is just one snippet that sums up his season. when we played dawson and max, our backline looked disfunctional. also geelongs fwd line wasnt stacked with genuine fwds and had midfielders going fwd.
dawson + max would have been a disaster. max over dawson just wasnt warranted on form.
time to move on it was almost 2 years ago.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Sun 26 Aug 2007 1:16pm
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 789
- Joined: Thu 25 Mar 2004 9:37pm