Gram and McEvoy out

[Eastern]

My first thought when I heard Mc Evoy was out was that he must be sore and the club have used the opportunity of the Sandy bye to give him the week off. He has basically been one out against two experienced campaigners in almost every game so far, and we should not lose sight of the fact that he is still only 22 which is young for a 2nd or 3rd banana ruckman, let alone the single hand.

I read p66's comments with interest where he said that Ben wouldn't be wanting, and or wouldn't be happy to be taking a rest. That statement, if true gives me confidence in the young man's leadership & attitude going forward. It tells me that he wants to be out there giving his all for the club.

My prediction for Saturday is that Kosi will ruck for in excess of 80% of the game and that the coaching panel is still experimenting with this as part of the whole sub rule thing and looking at the Collingwood model of Jolly doing most of the ruck with Leigh Brown giving the occasional chop out. Our ideal set up would be for Gardi to do the lion's share with Kosi or Ben to give him the occasional chop out !!

[desertsaint]

kosi rucked better than mcevoy last week. blake is a better ruck atm than mcevoy.
maybe it's a rest, maybe mcevoy needs to get a bit of confidence by playing at sandy and actually beating an opponent - it must be killing his confidence getting smashed regardless of the opponent.
maybe ross wants a win this week above all other considerations.

Can I ask in what way kosi rucked better than Ben last week and if you really think Blake is better you should look at the 2 games he has helped him this year. And nothing wrong with wanting a win, we should be doing it every week.

50% vs 30%
and blake has shown no more than ben this year agreed, but against a smaller opponent will justify the change this week (i hope ).
of course we want to win - i'm not unhappy with the changes.

[plugger66]

kosi rucked better than mcevoy last week. blake is a better ruck atm than mcevoy.
maybe it's a rest, maybe mcevoy needs to get a bit of confidence by playing at sandy and actually beating an opponent - it must be killing his confidence getting smashed regardless of the opponent.
maybe ross wants a win this week above all other considerations.

Can I ask in what way kosi rucked better than Ben last week and if you really think Blake is better you should look at the 2 games he has helped him this year. And nothing wrong with wanting a win, we should be doing it every week.

50% vs 30%
and blake has shown no more than ben this year agreed, but against a smaller opponent will justify the change this week (i hope ).
of course we want to win - i'm not unhappy with the changes.

I dont know what 50% vs 30% means but Ben got more hitouts than anyone else on the ground and got more to advance than Kosi. 15% to 7%.

[barks4eva]

you now denying that you tried to accost grant whilst he was coaching a match....????...i thought that that came from your mouth...or at least your key board....

Never happened, never said or wrote that either, but carry on spinning and believing BS, you do it so well

[stinger]

you now denying that you tried to accost grant whilst he was coaching a match....????...i thought that that came from your mouth...or at least your key board....

Never happened, never said or wrote that either, but carry on spinning and believing BS, you do it so well

yeah..it happened all right...just that you entered the wrong box...that's the only thing that saved you....but then you stalked him all the way to court didn't you...????

[Thinline]

McEvoy needs a rest. He's been thrown in heavy this season and Melbourne's line up without Jamar offers the perfect opportunity. Hence Blake.

Lynch would have been picked - SURELY - had he not had his head caved in.

Kosi has been slowly getting there I reckon. For mine he's looked better this year than at any time last year. But this week, if he shanks dollies or drops lollies, I suspect he'll be 'rotated' out.

Glad to see Polo get another go. Give him three. That's enough to tell, surely.

Peake as an in has me puzzled but from reports he was very impressive in last week's VFL thriller. So 'integrity of selection' etc...

Cripps to sub. Winmar in indigenous round. That's what I'd like anyhow. Give us a tenth of Elvis and I'll grin.

[3rd generation saint]

Unfortunately for Lynch, he got knocked out at the end of last week's Sandy game because if he hadn't he may have got in ahead of Peake or Winmar.
Speaking of Winmar, I hope he has a memorable day on Saturday and shows he has an exciting future.
Surprised Big Mac got dropped, but as everyone has said, for all the good work he has done around the ground, he is getting belted in the ruck and maybe all that ruck work has him a little bruised, sore and down on confidence.
Now despite some people getting a little over enthusiastic about de listing players, just one question, who do you intend to replace them with.
Also the contractual arrangements these guys have would be a little hard to break right now and I am quite sure the playing group and the Players Association would take a dim view of such a harsh action.
As I said on another post, I am sure players know their future's are on the line, the only way they can secure their position at the club for next year is with strong performances in the seniors.
Let's see which ones are man enough to take up the challenge.

[MadSaintFan]

We need to win - simple as that. Not sure why people are calling for mass changes - its not going to benefit Walsh/Lynch/Heyne all coming in at once in a team that gets smashed by 10 goals. Need to bleed these younger players in 1 by 1. As it is this will be our 6th or 7th debutant this year.

Blake would hardly be scared by rucking against Martin so this is a good round to rest McEvoy. He looked knackered last week. Big ask for a 21yo to ruck the whole season.

Winmar to come in as a sub - Cripps to get a full game and show us some dash. Looking forward to seeing Siposs play another game - this kid has a real touch of class about him.

[bobmurray]

I think Ben is out because he is too easily beaten in the ruck...

He is selected to compete in the ruck but he has even been toweled by a 3
game rookie...

Another position to look at come draft time......and there are quite a few

[desertsaint]

kosi rucked better than mcevoy last week. blake is a better ruck atm than mcevoy.
maybe it's a rest, maybe mcevoy needs to get a bit of confidence by playing at sandy and actually beating an opponent - it must be killing his confidence getting smashed regardless of the opponent.
maybe ross wants a win this week above all other considerations.

Can I ask in what way kosi rucked better than Ben last week and if you really think Blake is better you should look at the 2 games he has helped him this year. And nothing wrong with wanting a win, we should be doing it every week.

50% vs 30%
and blake has shown no more than ben this year agreed, but against a smaller opponent will justify the change this week (i hope ).
of course we want to win - i'm not unhappy with the changes.

I dont know what 50% vs 30% means but Ben got more hitouts than anyone else on the ground and got more to advance than Kosi. 15% to 7%.

50% arse vs 30% endeavour!

actually it's effectiveness from the ruck. figures posted in an earlier thread. you were there. i think.

[plugger66]

kosi rucked better than mcevoy last week. blake is a better ruck atm than mcevoy.
maybe it's a rest, maybe mcevoy needs to get a bit of confidence by playing at sandy and actually beating an opponent - it must be killing his confidence getting smashed regardless of the opponent.
maybe ross wants a win this week above all other considerations.

Can I ask in what way kosi rucked better than Ben last week and if you really think Blake is better you should look at the 2 games he has helped him this year. And nothing wrong with wanting a win, we should be doing it every week.

50% vs 30%
and blake has shown no more than ben this year agreed, but against a smaller opponent will justify the change this week (i hope ).
of course we want to win - i'm not unhappy with the changes.

I dont know what 50% vs 30% means but Ben got more hitouts than anyone else on the ground and got more to advance than Kosi. 15% to 7%.

50% arse vs 30% endeavour!

actually it's effectiveness from the ruck. figures posted in an earlier thread. you were there. i think.

Well the 15% and 7% are the hotouts to advantage and Ben got that as well as the most hitouts. People seem to forget thet last week Kosi rucked the most and Ben was forward more and we still got smashed around the packs.

[Eastern]

Yeah like we would delist them now Seem like a big Nuff Nuff, i mean going to the coach to voice you concerns during a match.
.

got that ALMOST right...

As I recall;

A would be stats man was more than a little upset after our rucks got towelled up by Steven King & Brad Ottens one day. This alleged person appeared to be even more upset with Grant Thomas' percieved attitude towards ruckmen. This alleged person then produced and copied many copies of what were "HIS" stats on HIT-OUTS TO ADVANTAGE and went to the MCG the next week armed with these documents.

His first effort at getting these documents to the then StKilda coach was to post them all over the coaches box prior to the game. This he did to the coaches box in the Southern Stand. The only problem with this is that the coach couldn't read them from the coaches box on the other side of the ground.

Our "stats man" wasn't going to give up that easily. He then approached some of the coaching staff who were just inside the fence watching the players warm up. Mick McGuane even appeared to engage in a brief conversation with this person. Boyed by this our "stats man" then approached the head coach, Grant Thomas. The one-way conversation that was then had involved Grant muttering two words that suggested our "stats man" involve himself in a bit of sex & travel.

I find it a bit co-incedental that we are playing Melbourne this week. We played Melbourne that day too !!

[bergsone]

Kosi been told the future is the ruck or out ?

[starsign]

Great stuff Easto!!

[barks4eva]

Yeah like we would delist them now Seem like a big Nuff Nuff, i mean going to the coach to voice you concerns during a match.
.

got that ALMOST right...

As I recall;

A would be stats man was more than a little upset after our rucks got towelled up by Steven King & Brad Ottens one day. This alleged person appeared to be even more upset with Grant Thomas' percieved attitude towards ruckmen. This alleged person then produced and copied many copies of what were "HIS" stats on HIT-OUTS TO ADVANTAGE and went to the MCG the next week armed with these documents.

His first effort at getting these documents to the then StKilda coach was to post them all over the coaches box prior to the game. This he did to the coaches box in the Southern Stand. The only problem with this is that the coach couldn't read them from the coaches box on the other side of the ground.

Our "stats man" wasn't going to give up that easily. He then approached some of the coaching staff who were just inside the fence watching the players warm up. Mick McGuane even appeared to engage in a brief conversation with this person. Boyed by this our "stats man" then approached the head coach, Grant Thomas. The one-way conversation that was then had involved Grant muttering two words that suggested our "stats man" involve himself in a bit of sex & travel.

I find it a bit co-incedental that we are playing Melbourne this week. We played Melbourne that day too !!

There was no sex and travel mentioned, hey but don't let the facts get in the way of a good yarn AND they were not my stats ( "HIS" like WTF ).... it's quite funny how things get misrepresented and passed off as fact from people who were not there or within earshot!

[stinger]

Yeah like we would delist them now Seem like a big Nuff Nuff, i mean going to the coach to voice you concerns during a match.
.

got that ALMOST right...

As I recall;

A would be stats man was more than a little upset after our rucks got towelled up by Steven King & Brad Ottens one day. This alleged person appeared to be even more upset with Grant Thomas' percieved attitude towards ruckmen. This alleged person then produced and copied many copies of what were "HIS" stats on HIT-OUTS TO ADVANTAGE and went to the MCG the next week armed with these documents.

His first effort at getting these documents to the then StKilda coach was to post them all over the coaches box prior to the game. This he did to the coaches box in the Southern Stand. The only problem with this is that the coach couldn't read them from the coaches box on the other side of the ground.

Our "stats man" wasn't going to give up that easily. He then approached some of the coaching staff who were just inside the fence watching the players warm up. Mick McGuane even appeared to engage in a brief conversation with this person. Boyed by this our "stats man" then approached the head coach, Grant Thomas. The one-way conversation that was then had involved Grant muttering two words that suggested our "stats man" involve himself in a bit of sex & travel.

I find it a bit co-incedental that we are playing Melbourne this week. We played Melbourne that day too !!

yep.....that's pretty much how i remember it....

[saintspremiers]

I concur Eastern. Was at that game.

[Megsie]

very happy for Ben to have a "rest" this week.
glad he has a coach who is looking after his long term physical
condition.
Melbourne have no rucks so have a good rest for freo next week Ben you deserve a rest as you have worked very hard.

[SainterK]

kosi rucked better than mcevoy last week. blake is a better ruck atm than mcevoy.
maybe it's a rest, maybe mcevoy needs to get a bit of confidence by playing at sandy and actually beating an opponent - it must be killing his confidence getting smashed regardless of the opponent.
maybe ross wants a win this week above all other considerations.

Can I ask in what way kosi rucked better than Ben last week and if you really think Blake is better you should look at the 2 games he has helped him this year. And nothing wrong with wanting a win, we should be doing it every week.

50% vs 30%
and blake has shown no more than ben this year agreed, but against a smaller opponent will justify the change this week (i hope ).
of course we want to win - i'm not unhappy with the changes.

I dont know what 50% vs 30% means but Ben got more hitouts than anyone else on the ground and got more to advance than Kosi. 15% to 7%.

50% arse vs 30% endeavour!

actually it's effectiveness from the ruck. figures posted in an earlier thread. you were there. i think.

Well the 15% and 7% are the hotouts to advantage and Ben got that as well as the most hitouts. People seem to forget thet last week Kosi rucked the most and Ben was forward more and we still got smashed around the packs.

So why did Kosi have the two shots at goal and an assist then?

Report including ruckwork from Hawks game can be found here

http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/rep ... ort_72.pdf

[desertsaint]

i win!

(if you can forgive me docking ben 3%)

[thejiggingsaint]

I'm hoping that Ben is being given a wee spell, rather than just dropped.
I know we got ka-powed in the clearances against the hawks though, so perhaps its just RL doing a bit of tweaking? I guess we're going to see a lot of experimentation this year. Should be interesting!

GO SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Teflon]

Not sure how Kosi is getting a game, he is bloody woeful and not the future, same for Blake. This would have been an ideal game to bring in Stanley to get some experience. I though NDS might get the chop- playing lazy. Anyway, a few experienced players need to prove if they're fairdinkum this week or just overpaid show ponies.

Dal Santo is the only mid standing up FFS.....

[Bernard Shakey]

kosi rucked better than mcevoy last week. blake is a better ruck atm than mcevoy.
maybe it's a rest, maybe mcevoy needs to get a bit of confidence by playing at sandy and actually beating an opponent - it must be killing his confidence getting smashed regardless of the opponent.
maybe ross wants a win this week above all other considerations.

Can I ask in what way kosi rucked better than Ben last week and if you really think Blake is better you should look at the 2 games he has helped him this year. And nothing wrong with wanting a win, we should be doing it every week.

50% vs 30%
and blake has shown no more than ben this year agreed, but against a smaller opponent will justify the change this week (i hope :wink:).
of course we want to win - i'm not unhappy with the changes.

I dont know what 50% vs 30% means but Ben got more hitouts than anyone else on the ground and got more to advance than Kosi. 15% to 7%.

50% arse vs 30% endeavour!

actually it's effectiveness from the ruck. figures posted in an earlier thread. you were there. i think.

Well the 15% and 7% are the hotouts to advantage and Ben got that as well as the most hitouts. People seem to forget thet last week Kosi rucked the most and Ben was forward more and we still got smashed around the packs.

So why did Kosi have the two shots at goal and an assist then?

Report including ruckwork from Hawks game can be found here

http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/rep ... ort_72.pdf

Well that's it then the stats say whatever you said or whatever you want them to say. I tend to go by what I see, and I see no future in Kosi.

Ben has obviously been rested. By the way I think Melbourne will win by three goals.

[saintbob]

So if Gram is out because he can't kick straight, how come our forwards haven't got the lemon and sarss?

Gram is out, because over the last 18 month he has been our best down hill skier!!!

FINALLY RL has seen the light

[To the top]

With the comment on ruckmen, let's condider:-

Gardiner 199cm 105kg
McEvoy 200cm 98kg
Koschitzke 197cm 93kg

Spot the difference?

Gardiner is the only top class ruckman we have - including on the score of experience.

McEvoy is an apprentice who needs to work on his body and weight so he physically hurts opposition players in the contest.

Koschitzke is a utility player who can pinch hit in the ruck.

In regards the mark spilt by Koschitzke, that was right in front of us and the disposal to him was very, very poor - he was in position and with free space but the kick to him, was short and a floater causing him to have to accelerate forward to get to the ball when he should have had to move little - having made the space.

Consequently he got to the mark at an awkward height, stretching forward with his hands and bending whilst having to adjust and move quickly forward to meet the ball.

This was compounded by Hawthorn then winning the contested ball and then finding 2 (TWO) players moving forward unchecked into space around the boundary and an easy goal resulted.

The disposal to Koschitzke was absolutely shocking and made what should have been easy (ie a mark in front of the eyes) difficult.

The "float" on the ball was mongrel.

Apart from that he took a couple of strong contested marks in defensive positions - and created a goal for Cripps on one of our very, very few forward entries.

I think some of you need to look elsewhere for the cause of our current predicament.

And I would have Koschitzke, Gram (he is an outside player who can run and dispose over distance creating opportunity if we had smalls and mediums with pace in our forward line to run onto loose balls. If we are not winning clearances we are not feeding his ability) and Clarke (his best and near enough best puts him easily inside our best 21 as he has demonstrated in many matches) in my team.

There are others I wouldn't have in my side because they are far too easily exposed including because they are one dimensional.