Games into the kids by season's end

[evertonfc]

The debate seems to have evolved this week from 'play the kids!' to 'are the kids any good?'

Fair enough, too. We don't know whether our kids are any good. But my belief if is that we need to find out - without delay - which of our kids are worth persisting with.

That means trying several players in 2011. We desperately need to find players who can be competing for places in 2012 and beyond. And if they can't compete, we need to know that soon, so we can keep drafting quality young kids.

So rather talking in broad-brush, immeasurable terms, I'd ideally like to see the club get a certain number of games into young players and then make some critical calls.

I suggest this as a guide as to what we can hope for. There is a lot of games suggested below, but take into account that there's a load of players I'm happy to live without - including Baker, Blake, Clarke, Gardiner, McQualter, Dempster, Jones, Peake, Gamble, etc - for much of the season.

If we did play those players, I have no doubt we can scrape into the 8 when our form turns. But is that really what we want and need?

I see this year as a key year in development, in the same way Hawthorn were able to introduce plenty of young talent onto their list in 2009 & 2010.

I'm also not suggesting we get this all done at once, but it should be a staggered approach, so that over the course of the season, we're fielding teams that are reasonably competitive but also enable the youngsters to be exposed to senior football.

This list is by no means perfect - it doesn't account for injuries and in some cases form - but I don't think it's grossly unfair. Unelevated rookies [except for Walsh] have been omitted at this stage.

To play 10+ games in 2011

- Arryn Siposs - Forward of the future, get games into him now and accelerate his development. [Played 2 games in 2011]

- Jack Steven - Struggling now, but get more games through him. Needs to learn at this level and how hard he has to work. [Played 3 games in 2011]

- Jamie Cripps - Looks a player, stick with him for as much as we can this year in order to fast-track his development. [Played 3 games in 2011]

- Alister Smith - I quite like the look of him and hope he can play a fair bit of footy this year. Has a bit of zing about him. [Played 3 games in 2011]

To play 5 or more games in 2011

- Tom Simpkin - Lots of positive wraps. Would love to see him play 5-plus games but his place on the list seems assured beyond this year, so I'm not panicking about where he is at. [Played 0 games in 2011]

- Rhys Stanley - I don't care what people say [lots of negatives], his natural talent needs to be exposed to elite-level football. He may not be up to it. That's ok, but let's find out where he's at. Imagine how much better he'll be for having 8-10 matches next year? [Played 2 games in 2011].

- Nick Heyne - Turns 21 in July, so he's not a spring chicken any longer. Need to play him before the end of the year to assess where his development is at and whether he's worth persisting with. Some positive Sandringham reports suggest he's a chance. [Played 0 games in 2011]

- Tom Lynch - First-round draft pick and quite frankly, we need to see this guy play. Is he a forward? Is he a defender? I don't know; who does?. However, we need BOTH, so what do we have to lose from trying this guy? Five games gives us the opportunity to assess him knowingly. Doing well at Sandringham. [Played 0 games in 2011]

To play 2 or more games in 2011

- Nick Winmar - Unlikely to get to five games but I'm hoping he sneaks in later in the year for at least a couple. We have to get a look at him sooner or later in the senior ranks. Hopefully he makes it for sentimental reasons, but we still have to assess him, like everyone else. [Played 0 games in 2011]

- Tom Ledger - Just to poke his head into the senior team and get those first few matches out of the way would be a real bonus. [Played 0 games in 2011]

- Sam Crocker - See Ledger. [Played 0 games in 2011]

- Tommy Walsh - Looked good in the pre-season and is learning his craft at Sandringham. Time to give him a taste of the big time when the next injury arises. Surely we have to try him out this year.

- Will Johnson - Like Lynch, seems to have evolved from his original KPP role to the other end. He's a mature body, has made his debut, now needs to pick up and extra couple of games this year to aid his development. [Played 1 game in 2011]

- Paul Cahill - Wraps not positive on here but I would like to see him play a game or two. Nothing to lose from trying him out. A likely delisting at season's end, but let's a get a look at him first. Talented junior. [Played 0 games in 2011]

Others

- Daniel Archer. Has already debuted but is nowhere near AFL level. Keep in the VFL and develop positional sense/confidence there.

- Ryan Gamble. Know what he can do but unsure he is part of the future. Would need to put in some big VFL matches and show he is willing to go to extremes to save his career.

- Brett Peake and Dean Polo - same as Gamble.

I'll bookmark this thread and come back to it at the end of the year to see how many kids Ross Lyon ultimately tried and to what extent he played them.

I guess the message is simple: we have a golden opportunity to fast-track the next generation of Saints and find some players we desperately need for 2012 and beyond. The worst case scenario is that most of our kids are rubbish and we have to hit the draft again. That's ok - it's still a step forward from where we are now.

Whatever happens, let's not waste 2011.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

The debate seems to have evolved this week from 'play the kids!' to 'are the kids any good?'

Fair enough, too. We don't know whether our kids are any good. But my belief if is that we need to find out - without delay - which of our kids are worth persisting with.

That means trying several players in 2011. We desperately need to find players who can be competing for places in 2012 and beyond.

So rather talking in broad-brush, immeasurable terms, I'd ideally like to see the club get a certain number of games into young players and then make some critical calls.

I suggest this as a guide as to what we can hope for. There is a lot of games suggested below, but take into account that there's a load of players I'm happy to live without - including Baker, Blake, Clarke, Gardiner, McQualter, Dempster, Jones, Peake, Gamble, etc - for much of the season.

If we did play those players, I have no doubt we can scrape into the 8 when our form turns. But is that really what we want and need?

I see this year as a key year in development, in the same way Hawthorn were able to introduce plenty of young talent onto their list in 2009 & 2010.

I'm also not suggesting we get this all done at once, but it should be a staggered approach, so that over the course of the season, we're fielding teams that are reasonably competitive but also enable the youngsters to be exposed to senior football.

Haven't read beyond this chunk but agree wholeheartedly so far. No more guessing. Time to find out for sure.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree. but put ledger in the 5+ group please.

[terry smith rules]

really like to see Johnson get more than 2 games this year

What I liked when I saw him was that he got to contests, which is a bit more than Stanley seems to be capable of.

[SainterK]

really like to see Johnson get more than 2 games this year

What I liked when I saw him was that he got to contests, which is a bit more than Stanley seems to be capable of.

Injury report had him hurting his shoulder TSR, and back playing for Sandy in 2 weeks.

[The Sainter]

Best summing up I have read here for weeks. Evertonfc is completely right. Could someone send a copy of it to Ross please? Get games into these young players Evertonfc listed from now on to see if they are going to be our future, if some fail to impress so what, at least we will then know.
Yet once again we have picked up two more rejects this year in Gamble and Polo.

[stinger]

The debate seems to have evolved this week from 'play the kids!' to 'are the kids any good?'

Fair enough, too. We don't know whether our kids are any good. But my belief if is that we need to find out - without delay - which of our kids are worth persisting with.

That means trying several players in 2011. We desperately need to find players who can be competing for places in 2012 and beyond. And if they can't compete, we need to know that soon, so we can keep drafting quality young kids.

Whatever happens, let's not waste 2011.

good post mate...

[Dr Spaceman]

Best summing up I have read here for weeks. Evertonfc is completely right. Could someone send a copy of it to Ross please? Get games into these young players Evertonfc listed from now on to see if they are going to be our future, if some fail to impress so what, at least we will then know.
Yet once again we have picked up two more rejects this year in Gamble and Polo.

I agree it's a good post by Everyonfc, but does anyone really think that Ross is going to open the mail one day and suddenly go "Hold everything, here's a great idea I never thought of"?

I'd hold off on the copy to RL, I reckon he's got things worked out

[Teflon]

Best summing up I have read here for weeks. Evertonfc is completely right. Could someone send a copy of it to Ross please? Get games into these young players Evertonfc listed from now on to see if they are going to be our future, if some fail to impress so what, at least we will then know.
Yet once again we have picked up two more rejects this year in Gamble and Polo.

I agree it's a good post by Everyonfc, but does anyone really think that Ross is going to open the mail one day and suddenly go "Hold everything, here's a great idea I never thought of"?

I'd hold off on the copy to RL, I reckon he's got things worked out

Agree. Pretty sure Ross knows already how and who to stagger games of footy into in 2011.

[Junction Oval]

evertonfc has put some tangible suggestions on the table, that corresponds with the general feelings of hundreds of posters in recent weeks.

A good effort. Others can argue around the edges.

[Teflon]

evertonfc has put some tangible suggestions on the table, that corresponds with the general feelings of hundreds of posters in recent weeks.

A good effort. Others can argue around the edges.

...um...ok...so shall we rolly eyes also?

[gringo]

Talking of kids I mentioned that I knew someone that was a huge saints fan and had a brother that was supposedly a good footy player at Eastern Rangers. Just saw an article that said he is a potential number one draft pick, so much for getting the club to keep a shifty eye out. His name is Jonathan Patton, maybe we could start spreading some rumours about his Jack Darling attitude problems, or just keep stuffing up our season, the AFL might feel sorry for us and give us the no.1 pick.

[saintsRrising]

I'd ideally like to see the club get a certain number of games into young players

.

As Teflon has implied this process would certainly already seem to be well underway this year, and perhaps will be accelerated more given the results of recent weeks.

Would not be surprised if Baker for example only comes back now for his 200th late in the year.

[SinCitySaint]

The people best able to judge a players readiness for senior football are the coaches. Remember, throwing a young player into the seniors before he is physically and most importantly mentally ready can actually hinder his development. It is a difficult balancing act.

[evertonfc]

Thrilled that since I wrote the opening post, Ross has actually passed expectations about playing the kids - which is just fantastic.

He's thrown them all in, and quickly. The result has been experience for our next generation as well as a wake-up call for our older players.

It now looks like we're on track to reach all the game-related benchmarks I mentioned - all of which I thought were optimistic in the extreme.

Clearly, Ross Lyon has taken a firm stance on this: 2011 will not be a wasted year. We will bring through the next generation this year and get ourselves ready for the years ahead.

This has been proven at selection for several weeks now, and has been rubber stamped this week with the selection of Ledger and Simpkin.

Delighted that he's bitten the bullet and is sticking to youth. The club can only benefit from this move.

Who knows - perhaps our kids will take us all the way to the finals, and get some much-needed September experience under their belt.

Can't think of anything better. From one of your harsher critics, well done Ross.

[dcstkfc]

He's been clever about it, throwing in a lot but not at the same time.

[evertonfc]

He's been clever about it, throwing in a lot but not at the same time.

Agree. By rotating them over the course of the year, they'll all get plenty of game time.

And they'll all be so much better prepared for the years ahead - and we'll also get a much better idea of whether or not they can cut it at this level.

A big step for the future and not a moment too soon.

[Dr Spaceman]

He's been clever about it, throwing in a lot but not at the same time.

Yep.

And I reckon they'll all get a crack by the end of the season including Walsh, Heyne and Cahill.

[stinger]

Thrilled that since I wrote the opening post, Ross has actually passed expectations about playing the kids - which is just fantastic.

He's thrown them all in, and quickly. The result has been experience for our next generation as well as a wake-up call for our older players.

It now looks like we're on track to reach all the game-related benchmarks I mentioned - all of which I thought were optimistic in the extreme.

Clearly, Ross Lyon has taken a firm stance on this: 2011 will not be a wasted year. We will bring through the next generation this year and get ourselves ready for the years ahead.

This has been proven at selection for several weeks now, and has been rubber stamped this week with the selection of Ledger and Simpkin.

Delighted that he's bitten the bullet and is sticking to youth. The club can only benefit from this move.

Who knows - perhaps our kids will take us all the way to the finals, and get some much-needed September experience under their belt.

Can't think of anything better. From one of your harsher critics, well done Ross.

+1

[borderbarry]

Am pleased that Ross is playing the youngsters, but I would have thought Walsh was due for a game before Simpkin and Ledger.

[BackFromUSA]

Simpkin is well ahead of Walsh and Ledger is a completely different player ...

Would not be surprised to see Simpkin as our CHB in 2 to 3 years.

[saintslegendLH]

Am pleased that Ross is playing the youngsters, but I would have thought Walsh was due for a game before Simpkin and Ledger.

simpkin 28 disposals and a goal at chb on the weekend for sandy.

[evertonfc]

Can any of our Sandy watchers give us a full status update on Nick Heyne?

Facing a make or break year. Haven't been able to follow his past few weeks. Would like to see him make it, seemed to have an X-factor at junior level that I hope can be effective at AFL level.

[Dr Spaceman]

Can any of our Sandy watchers give us a full status update on Nick Heyne?

Facing a make or break year. Haven't been able to follow his past few weeks. Would like to see him make it, seemed to have an X-factor at junior level that I hope can be effective at AFL level.

I reckon he's been going alright this season though others would have actually seen a lot more of him than me.

Apparently played OK last week, though interestingly his name does not appear in the Sandy lineup this week. Injury/Rest?

Still think he's a chance to get another crack this year as Ross continues to test drive all the late models on the lot.

[evertonfc]

I made the original post in early 2011 with a plan to building for next year. Of course not every call was good - Dempster has emerged as a solid defender and Al Smith has been delisted - but the majority of them were important points.

Just wondering if this forum believes we've played enough youngsters to be ready to challenge next year?

My gut feeling is that while we're a pass mark under Scott this this season - a few wins in tight games and we'd be knocking on the top four - we're still at least another year or two away from going right back up the ladder.

We've been fighting for our football life this season and while plenty of <23-year olds have had game time, we could have brought forward a few more.

Perhaps we can do that in our final four games. I certainly hope so - we need to build immediately for the future.