Where did the slump START? !!

[Eastern]

I think we have to go way back to just before the finals last year and analyze what has gone wrong and how it went wrong. In a step by step look at things we can now question quite a few incidents in hindsight

We made a decision to keep the entire list training right through the finals. Part of the reason for this could have been that we were more banged up than most people realize, meaning the list was pretty fragile. I think the 2 GFs proved that this might have been pretty close to the mark.

The Drawn GF, and subsequent replay meant that a huge chunk of our list did not return to training until 1 December (compared to Essendon starting in early October), and with a lot of banged up players our list for post season surgery was pretty long meaning that a lot of players got little or no work in prior to Christmas. There was also the mental drain of being in 3 GFs in 53 weeks and nothing to show for it meant that the players needed every day of that break.

The return to the club also co-incided with the height of the KD storm. Those from outside the inner sanctum will say that it hasn't effected the dynamic or pshyc of the group, but I believe it has had an effect that will take time to get over. How much time is anybodys guess

There was also the move from Moorabbin to Seaford. Whilst the new (and far superior) facilities will have a benifit in time, the move would have caused some disruption to routine.

There was a real squeeze through Jan-Feb where we had a trip to NZ (that had more controversy and more disruption) and a community camp meaning that we didn't even have time for our annual Intra-Club match

So, the way I see it we have been chasing our tail since September trying to catch up to where we should be at. The pressure of AFL in-season means that it is that much more difficult and will take that much longer to catch up. Whether we can in time to salvage something out of 2011 remains to be seen

Thoughts? !!

[bigcarl]

IMO it started about 10 minutes into Grand Final 2. Mentally shot and shellshocked by Collingwood's ability to rattle on quick goals.

[Enrico_Misso]

R2 when number 7 was carried off.

[plugger66]

Combine the last 2 responses and you have it in one.

[ralphsmith]

A lot of good points.

I agree on the delayed start.

Essendon were months ahead of us because they didn't have to play afl until october.

Kim Duthies wretched antics.

Enter the land of slump. Where we dwell, at present.

[bigred]

I reckon the heads dropped mid way through the third quarter of the GF replay.

The Duthie bulls***...I dont think it has had any effect.

[BallBanger]

Halfway through 2009 we were kicking everyones asses full on forward pressure we were laughing at the opposition playing into our hands kicking backwards (now their laughing at us).
We then got lazy and reverted back to our slow defence and not quick offence...still miffed how we made last years grand final playing the shtt style we did...
We do not know how to score quickly anymore

We never play on even when we kick out relying on structure but unfortunately it anables the opposition to set up structure and we cannot score.

So frustrating to watch game and we go backwards..our mids etc do not even bother to present anymore. Good players always want the ball our players only present when going backwards under no pressure

[bigcarl]

The Duthie bulls***...I dont think it has had any effect.

Agree 100 per cent. Vastly overrated by the media and opposition fans as a factor.

[noob]

The shaw(riewoldt) smother

[suss]

The slump started when Michael Gardiner's hamstring when 'twang' in GF1. Kosi's absence hasn't helped. With respect to Benny Mac, we won't be near the top of the ladder until we get an A-grade ruck man.

I reckon 2012 is a write off. I'd get as many games into Cripps, Smith, Simpkin, Ledger, Winmar, etc this year and trade for an A-grade ruck man at season's end with a view to a premiership in 2012-2015.

[gringo]

We need a ruckman to make it easy but we need to alter the way we contest the ruck duels, and we can still win games. I heard Ross tell them to watch the ruckmans eyes and watch where the ball is going to go. It seemed to work. We need to settle our midfield and learn to play for each other. Dal and Ray need to link up and protect Montagna when he is trying to run out to space and vice versa. The grunt from Armo and Jones, crash mcevoy into the opposite ruck, second man up around the ground. Mc evoy cutting off across the backline or drifting forward when possible. To win a premiership in the current era we need big mac to come on quick or an elite tap ruckman. Who has Port got? I think trengove might be ok, they should be leaving just to get out.

[saintsRrising]

Where did the slump START?

In GF2 when Roo was smothered kicking what would have been an easy goal if he had gone back in and taken his shot rather than playing on without looking.

Virtually the whole team deflated then.

PS We would still have lost without that as the team was injury riddled for GF2.

[BigMart]

Pre season.....


Was aweful.....

[asiu]

............ the slump started when rooey came back last year.




opportunity missed.

[Sainternist]

The Duthie bulls***...I dont think it has had any effect.

Agree 100 per cent. Vastly overrated by the media and opposition fans as a factor.

I agree with both of you. That GF replay was soul destroying. Roo's kick smothered by Shaw was the beginning of it.

Duthie has been given way too much credit.

[Loyally Numbed]

IMO, the the signs of a slump were evident early in the 2010 season.
When we got towelled by both Essendon and Carlton, the weaknesses that are being talked about now started to become apparent.

We often struggled to score, due to Roo being swamped, the poor kicking, the lack of mid field goalkickers, the lack of pace. it was all there.

I think we only made it to the Grand Final through sheer will power as much as ability.

The Saints game style is also very physically demanding, the constant running required had to eventually take its toll.

I think at the end of GF 1, the will power and the steam had just about run out.

I get the impression from watching them this season that there is a sort of sub conscious resistance to the physically demanding defensive game plan, it's as if the voices in their heads are saying, "hey, this style didn't achieve anything but exhaustion and disappointment, mate, I aint gonna bust my gut anymore, regardless of how much you want to". it's hard to fight those voices.

Ross Lyons is a very clever bloke, and judging by his actions, I think he has recognized this problem and is working on plans to get back on track.

Maybe they just need some time.

[Loyally Numbed]

IMO

[Thinline]

Where did the slump START?

In GF2 when Roo was smothered kicking what would have been an easy goal if he had gone back in and taken his shot rather than playing on without looking.

Virtually the whole team deflated then.

PS We would still have lost without that as the team was injury riddled for GF2.

I say here was the nail, and Gilbert missing when there was the faint hope of a resurgence was the hammer. If that makes sense.

[St Chris]

IMO, the the signs of a slump were evident early in the 2010 season.
When we got towelled by both Essendon and Carlton, the weaknesses that are being talked about now started to become apparent.

We often struggled to score, due to Roo being swamped, the poor kicking, the lack of mid field goalkickers, the lack of pace. it was all there.

I think we only made it to the Grand Final through sheer will power as much as ability.

The Saints game style is also very physically demanding, the constant running required had to eventually take its toll.

I think at the end of GF 1, the will power and the steam had just about run out.

I get the impression from watching them this season that there is a sort of sub conscious resistance to the physically demanding defensive game plan, it's as if the voices in their heads are saying, "hey, this style didn't achieve anything but exhaustion and disappointment, mate, I aint gonna bust my gut anymore, regardless of how much you want to". it's hard to fight those voices.

Ross Lyons is a very clever bloke, and judging by his actions, I think he has recognized this problem and is working on plans to get back on track.

Maybe they just need some time.

Incredibly well put. Clearly a well thought out response, which there is nor room for on this forum

[saint_winston]

the final siren of the drawn grand final was the start of the slump. a massive effort on that day against a superior team that was a bit off on the day had gone unrewarded and there was i think a real feeling that the chance had passed us by that night. never a realistic hope in the replay. the drawn GF was the last hurrah for this group. time to rebuild. please commence ASAP

[rct63]

'09 GF.
Opportunity vanished and won't come again for 25+ years.

[Dr Spaceman]

'09 GF.
Opportunity vanished and won't come again for 25+ years.

Didn't it come again 12 months later

[spert]

The slump had its beginnings later last season where our defensive game started getting picked apart by opposition coaches, and our defensive pressure also dropped off. Our pre-season form was pretty ordinary, and really, the form of our better players has been ordinary as well. Of course we miss Hayes, but there's more problems than that, and on-field leadership is lacking.

[sunsaint]

Thoughts? !!

I dont buy one scrap of the pre-season argument/excuse.
Collingwood players came back early to get a full pre-season
they did the american high altitude training camp (again)
they have not suffered one bit

slumps start with complacency, and that set in a long time before we got to the 2010 GF

[rct63]

'09 GF.
Opportunity vanished and won't come again for 25+ years.

Didn't it come again 12 months later

STK were clearly the best in '09.
Made up the numbers in '10 and would have been a travesty if they fluked another flag from the Filth