What we learnt...

[Solar]

disapointing and a terrible night

Things that stood out for me:

gram is going half pace, no injury worries to fall back on and has to be in the gun with peake for round 1. Rather clarke making the play and turning it over twice then gram refusing to work for the ball.

Archer works hard but is no first ruck, no suprise there. Lets be honest, if you go into a game without a first or second ruck your going to get smashed.

We were bloody short down back and missed the likes of walsh or dawson, especially once chips went down. Anyone notice our KPP were flankers!

Baker aint gone yet, jumped onto jetta and stopped him in his tracks.

Lynch just does not work hard enough but uses the ball well when he gets it. Gamble is good value and will be dangerous with a collection of talls around him.

geary has gone backwards, armo does not make enough contests and peake was dreadful. No-one really stood up outside of the backline and it was a forgettable night.

Learn from it.

[mad saint guy]

We were near full strength

Our best players
Numbers
12, 7,18,25,11,26,1,44, 4,33,22

All playing

Only
13,23, 19, 5 missing

Fact - Our first four rucks were all missing. Three of those are also tall forward options which we lacked. We went into the game with a rookie key forward and a VFL defender as our ruck division up against Bellchambers - a tap specialist and an AA quality ruck in Ryder.

Fact - Fisher went off injured in the opening minutes. This left the defence without the full back, the apprentice full back and two of the best tall running defenders in the league (I still count Gilbert as a defender - I don't think he'll still be forward half way through the season. Montagna was also done by half time and did not return.

Gardiner, McEvoy, Koschitzke, Stanley, Schneider, Gilbert, Fisher, Dawson and Walsh all would have improved the quality and structure of the team. On recent form you could also put Ledger in there, and I'm sure Steven and Polo would have played if available. There's 12 for you. Also, it's a PRE-SEASON game. If you look at the history of NAB cup winners to premiership winners I think you'll find that there isn't a particularly strong connection.

[vacuous space]

Christ, you're hard on the bloke.

From your perspective, maybe. It isn't any one player's responsibility to beat a tag. If Lenny's having trouble breaking a tag, then I'd put at least some of that on the guys around him. Ablett and Swan haven't been beating tags for the last couple of years because they're unstoppable. They've been beating them because their teams are prepared and have done a great job of protecting them.

When he's head-to-head with somebody, Lenny's probably still one of the best 5 centre square players in the game. When teams decide to target him, rather than Dal or BJ, his influence drops off. He was beaten in the GF replay. He also struggled after quarter time in the 09 GF when Bartel clamped down on him. If you disagree with that, fine. I worry that teams are starting to look at tagging Lenny as a key to beating us. I'm also worried they might be right.

If I'm criticising anything, it's the extent to which we rely on Lenny in the centre. Armitage, in particular, was really dispointing last night. He spent a lot of time in the centre and was beaten badly and gave away a lot of stupid free kicks. After a brilliant performance against Geelong's kids, Mini simply disappeared. Those two are the real disappoinments. AFAIC, because those two are the only ones who could make a difference in the centre right now. I don't think any of our kids could walk into an AFL centre square without being overawed. I don't think any of our current outsiders could make a difference inside. Maybe Gram, but he'd need to show a lot more intensity at the contests than he has since his 09GF.

[bigcarl]

After a brilliant performance against Geelong's kids, Mini simply disappeared. Those two are the real disappoinments. AFAIC, because those two are the only ones who could make a difference in the centre right now. I don't think any of our kids could walk into an AFL centre square without being overawed. I don't think any of our current outsiders could make a difference inside. Maybe Gram, but he'd need to show a lot more intensity at the contests than he has since his 09GF.

Eddy would be worth a try in an in and under role, but he's a rookie. What about Raph "Wrecking Ball" Clarke?

I dunno. Someone's got to take some heat off Lenny. Hopefully Armo or Mini show something in that role soon. Admittedly a seasoned ruckman with a mature body would have made the world of difference.

[gringo]

Archer is a bit like Mc evoy good around the ground but needs sometime to become a ruckman. He is going to be a good player but is more a kpp than a ruck. He got smashed around by Bellchambers a bit but is well worth developing.

[Middo]

After a brilliant performance against Geelong's kids, Mini simply disappeared. Those two are the real disappoinments. AFAIC, because those two are the only ones who could make a difference in the centre right now. I don't think any of our kids could walk into an AFL centre square without being overawed. I don't think any of our current outsiders could make a difference inside. Maybe Gram, but he'd need to show a lot more intensity at the contests than he has since his 09GF.

Eddy would be worth a try in an in and under role, but he's a rookie. What about Raph "Wrecking Ball" Clarke?

I dunno. Someone's got to take some heat off Lenny. Hopefully Armo or Mini show something in that role soon. Admittedly a seasoned ruckman with a mature body would have made the world of difference.

Wrecking Ball..? Saw him wreck the ball a few times last night.!!

[wasaintsfan]

i learnt that although no one was taking the nab cub seriously quite a few ppl got upset when we lost =\

really confussing

[Moods]

Let's try to find some excuses.....surely it cant be that we were exposed....

It was only the nab cup......for some reason it was way more important to essendon....which to me doesn't make sense....because when your on a footy ground you just go as hard as you do and try to win the contest....no matter the opponent, game etc....the coaches can influence a game, but players can't go easy at risk of injury, and generally it's against their nature....competitivenss is what got the to the afl

So by your logic, the players should have gone just hard as they did in the GF last September? Of course it doesn't make sense, but it's human nature. Why does an out of form St Kilda team travel to Perth against a powerful WC team in 07 manage to win and play out of its socks? maybe b/c it's most revered player is playing his 350th? Shouldn't make any difference, but it does.

Most of the senior guys are about preparing for the real stuff. Some even probably think they are travelling at 100%, but they're not. I have absolutely no doubt that this game meant more to the bombers than it did to us. You can label that as an excuse, but I saw with my own eyes the intensity levels against the doggies in the NAB GF last year, and then Rd 1 in the real stuff. How do the blues manage to win the pre-season cup in 04 (I think it it was) and then finish bottom of the ladder?

WE had a nucleus of a reasonable team in - the reality is that Riewoldt spent as much time off the ground as on it, Dal and Joey never go hard pre-season and Joey was off after the 1st half, and we were missing our FF, ALL of our available ruckmen, and our first choice FB and CHB. WE will find out in 3 weeks whether that's just an excuse or not, but with at least 6 weeks less training than the bombers, a list who is hell bent on proving their worth to their new golden boy coach, I reckon it's about logic as much as anything.

[Junior]

That against sides with pace you need to control the centre square and stoppages. Given that we had no ruckman we had no chance. Called the game as over when it was 15 to 7.

If your skills are not up to scratch then you need to be able to do a role week in week out.

Worth noting that we were not taking the game as seriously as Essendon, each player had pre programmed game time regardless of result.

On the new players or untried players my thoughts are as follows.

Crocker - Did not see enough of him , looks skilled but looked to be trying to get used to the pace of senior football albeit Pre Season. May be a question mark on his pace on his brief apperance.

Gamble - Looks good but it is not a third tall, more of a clever medium forward. Look forward to seeing what he can do with Gilbert and Riewoldt around him for an extended period of time.

Winmar - Again did not see much of him. His lack of ball winning ability will go against him but he has beautiful skills.

Lynch- Have seen enough of him at Sandy to think he can make it. Pace is a worry but could make it as a hit up half forward.

Simpkin - Not up to it, ball handling skills are terrible. Good player art VFL level but do not see him making it.

Cripps - Looks okay and should play some football but do not believe that he is going to burst on to the scence.

Walsh - Composed and sure ball handling skills, would be ahead of Simpkin in my eyes.

Ledger - The pleasant surprise of the pre season, looks ready to go, pace and skilled. Very impressed with his hardness as well.

Johnson - Not even a good VFL player, is no where near AFL standard.

Smith - Pace and can find the football, consistency at this sage will be his issue. Would be ahead of Peake if I was selecting the team but behind Ledger.

Archer - As a real dip. Not ready for seniors yet and not sold on him yet.

[Con Gorozidis]

NAB.

Who gives a s***?

Seriously...

Essendon were running around like a team with a new, young coach who a are probably buzzing around their change room giving high fives to each other in the nude and going 'woo-hoo aren't we so awesome'.

We were running around like a team playing a trial game having played reasonably well in a trial game already.

Yes, we could have been better, but we weren't.

Consequences?

None as far as I can tell.

I agree except the exact same thing happened twice last year in the real stuff. and we have to go through the handwringing again in round 3.

same as last year. when a team like the blues or the bummers use play on at all costs footy - we look static and slow. our ball movement is stodgy and tentative.

[Con Gorozidis]

Archer is a bit like Mc evoy good around the ground but needs sometime to become a ruckman. He is going to be a good player but is more a kpp than a ruck. He got smashed around by Bellchambers a bit but is well worth developing.

at 193cm will never be a ruckman. has to try and be a key fwd and kick goals.

[Con Gorozidis]

That against sides with pace you need to control the centre square and stoppages. Given that we had no ruckman we had no chance. Called the game as over when it was 15 to 7.

If your skills are not up to scratch then you need to be able to do a role week in week out.

Worth noting that we were not taking the game as seriously as Essendon, each player had pre programmed game time regardless of result.

On the new players or untried players my thoughts are as follows.

Crocker - Did not see enough of him , looks skilled but looked to be trying to get used to the pace of senior football albeit Pre Season. May be a question mark on his pace on his brief apperance.

Gamble - Looks good but it is not a third tall, more of a clever medium forward. Look forward to seeing what he can do with Gilbert and Riewoldt around him for an extended period of time.

Winmar - Again did not see much of him. His lack of ball winning ability will go against him but he has beautiful skills.

Lynch- Have seen enough of him at Sandy to think he can make it. Pace is a worry but could make it as a hit up half forward.

Simpkin - Not up to it, ball handling skills are terrible. Good player art VFL level but do not see him making it.

Cripps - Looks okay and should play some football but do not believe that he is going to burst on to the scence.

Walsh - Composed and sure ball handling skills, would be ahead of Simpkin in my eyes.

Ledger - The pleasant surprise of the pre season, looks ready to go, pace and skilled. Very impressed with his hardness as well.

Johnson - Not even a good VFL player, is no where near AFL standard.

Smith - Pace and can find the football, consistency at this sage will be his issue. Would be ahead of Peake if I was selecting the team but behind Ledger.

Archer - As a real dip. Not ready for seniors yet and not sold on him yet.

good measured post with some reality checks throw in. a couple of positives - ledger and walsh. a few probables - smith and gamble. quite a few maybes and couple of nos.

[SainterK]

We were near full strength

Our best players
Numbers
12, 7,18,25,11,26,1,44, 4,33,22

All playing

Only
13,23, 19, 5 missing

You would seriously hope for that length of injuries in a HA game

essendon missing
Fletcher, pears, gumbleton, hille, dyson, welsh

So let's speak facts

I'll speak facts.

Essendon's season finished 28th August, St Kilda's 2nd October.

(and it could be argued that finishing 14th, they probably finished up even earlier)

[joffaboy]

Somr reality on last night - but hey Baum must be a Saints supporter just making excuses

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/b ... 1bibi.html

[Spinner]

i learnt that although no one was taking the nab cub seriously quite a few ppl got upset when we lost =\

really confussing

Im upset we lost. Extremely upset.

Wrecked my night as i couldnt go out - And more importantly I dont get to see the team and young players play next week in Coffs Harbour.

Do I understand the dynamics of the NAB Cup and its place in the season, sure do.


On a unrelated note - Im sick of people saying scrap the nab cup. Clubs will never go into a season without practice matches. Ever. The nab cup provides a vehicle to increase exposure, increase membership, and allow supporters (like most of us) to see our young players play.

[saintnick12]

I learnt that Bombers supporters are some of the most obnoxious so and so's, and the guy in front of me was inspiring some very un-ladylike emotions in me.

Fully agree SainterK.
I posted this in another thread about my experiences with the bombers ferals last night....so wanted to smack the smartarse 17 or so year old feral behind me in the mouth to shut him up...turned around a couple of times as if to say did you seriously just say that. Of course, made no difference. Of course, nothing I could do, and in the end i took my little boy for a kick of the footy.

I had a few sitting around me last night. Best they could come up with was variations of pull your pants up, or pull your pants down. Such morons. I had a three year old sitting on my knee and a young guy two rows behind me kept abusing all the players at the top of his voice and kept saying - smile for the camera Dal, get your hand off your c*** Riewoldt, where's Dawson etc, In the end I took him for a kick of the footy. I hadn't encountered that yet this year, but if last night was anything to go by, I'm not looking forward to some of our away games this year. At sitting in SC the worst you have to deal with is the Raph bashers and "kick it long" brigade.

_________________

[SainterK]

It's annoying, because you pay your money to go and watch your team, not to have your night ruined by some moron.

I was behind this guy who screamed 'snap your hammy of the bone Riewoldt' everytime he went near it. When Milney got near it, he went with the standard one worder.

At one point I leaned over and said 'you don't like Roo huh' to which he turned around incenced and said, spittle flying everywhere 'no I hate him'

I have to laugh...he then said he had a picture of Roo on his wall, my Dad said interesting, he then said and he's nude, my Dad then said very interesting.

He then blushed realising how it didn't come across quite how he intended it to, and said he used it as a dart board.



Loser.

[saintbrat]

I have to laugh...he then said he had a picture of Roo on his wall, my Dad said interesting, he then said and he's nude, my Dad then said very interesting.

He then blushed realising how it didn't come across quite how he intended it to, and said he used it as a dart board.



Loser.

a guy near me that tried to say something to Roo as he left the field,
I said you have a naked man on your phone? and he sort of deflected to girlfriend- and I said you like her having naked men on her phone- then said he had 2 and then three photos on his phone- I said - well very liberal of you..... *(Given only one saint was without clothes..)

[matrix]

its one of the reasons why i have earphones in listening to the game.

they just do it to rile you up
they do it because they think its funny with their mates
they want someone to say something to them because they think its cool and hard

spilling your drink in their lap is funnier

[saintnick12]

its one of the reasons why i have earphones in listening to the game.

they just do it to rile you up
they do it because they think its funny with their mates
they want someone to say something to them because they think its cool and hard

spilling your drink in their lap is funnier

Speaking from experience there Matrix Spilt a few drinks in laps in your time?? I'd love to see that... the ferals getting what they deserve.
Unfortunately being a woman and being with my father and three year old son, I just had to cop it, but in the end took my three year old for the kick he so desperately wanted at 3/4 time. Saved me getting into any trouble.


I usually have ear phones in one ear but didn't for two reasons...one being the three year old who isn't normally with me at games and you need your wits about you with a three year old at the footy.
And secondly because I can't find my radio. Need to get that sorted in readiness for round one...

[saintsRrising]

That against sides with pace you need to control the centre square and stoppages. Given that we had no ruckman we had no chance. Called the game as over when it was 15 to 7.

If your skills are not up to scratch then you need to be able to do a role week in week out.

Worth noting that we were not taking the game as seriously as Essendon, each player had pre programmed game time regardless of result.

On the new players or untried players my thoughts are as follows.

Crocker - Did not see enough of him , looks skilled but looked to be trying to get used to the pace of senior football albeit Pre Season. May be a question mark on his pace on his brief appearance.

Gamble - Looks good but it is not a third tall, more of a clever medium forward. Look forward to seeing what he can do with Gilbert and Riewoldt around him for an extended period of time.

Winmar - Again did not see much of him. His lack of ball winning ability will go against him but he has beautiful skills.

Lynch- Have seen enough of him at Sandy to think he can make it. Pace is a worry but could make it as a hit up half forward.

Simpkin - Not up to it, ball handling skills are terrible. Good player art VFL level but do not see him making it.

Cripps - Looks okay and should play some football but do not believe that he is going to burst on to the scence.

Walsh - Composed and sure ball handling skills, would be ahead of Simpkin in my eyes.

Ledger - The pleasant surprise of the pre season, looks ready to go, pace and skilled. Very impressed with his hardness as well.

Johnson - Not even a good VFL player, is no where near AFL standard.

Smith - Pace and can find the football, consistency at this sage will be his issue. Would be ahead of Peake if I was selecting the team but behind Ledger.

Archer - As a real dip. Not ready for seniors yet and not sold on him yet.

That is a pretty fair summary.... and i am pretty similar, but not quite.

Also where is Armo? At present Round 1 you would think he has down enough to earn an extended rack to be in the 22.


Smith, Ledger, Peake....and Steven

Round I would being in Smith.....and Ledger would be in the running. Peake was ok last year...but those moments of stupid disposal are still there.

Smith could be handy in the 22 to play as quick small defender as well when required.

Steven as part of the NZ four only now gets to state his case ......if not for NZ I would have expected that Round 1 (as Schneider is not available) that Steven would have been in the team.

Raph. First games were good. Essendona nightmare. Expect that to hopefully have been an aberration. PLEASE be!!!!!!

Gamble: has shown enough to be given a crack as playing as medium forward in that niche between Milne/Schneider and the talls.

Mini..burnt against a gutted Cats midfield...but has only been so so in other matches. If it was me I would be squeezing in another who may not be as good yet, but has more upside to develop. Mini has had a fair crack. Time to IMO give Armo at extended crack to see if he can make it.


Stanley, Archer and Lynch

All three are different. Stanly is yet to play, but IMO as he can play ruck and key forward is a good option in the 22 when Gardi is not available. Archer is a marking key forward..and Lynch is more a tall linking forward.

Zac..and Walsh

Walsh did nothing wrong in his games. But our back 6 is looking very good at present and on th basis of last years finals Zac should be preferred despite not playing yet.

ROUND 1

Baker Zac Blake
Raph Fisher Gwilt
Joey Hayes Ray
Steven Roo Gilbert
Milne Stanley Gamble

Ben Goddard Armitage

Dal, Gram, Jones, Lynch


One could swap Archer for Lynch and Ledger for Steven.

[Buckets]

We were near full strength

Our best players
Numbers
12, 7,18,25,11,26,1,44, 4,33,22

All playing

Only
13,23, 19, 5 missing

You would seriously hope for that length of injuries in a HA game

essendon missing
Fletcher, pears, gumbleton, hille, dyson, welsh

So let's speak facts

So Zac and Gardy not in our best 22? You can pretty much take out fisher as well considering he was on the ground for what a whole 5 minutes????
Then they subbed Joey off before halftime. Jones shouldnt have played the knock he received the week before he would have been better off not playing.

The setups suggested that Lyon was looking at different things and the senior players didn't play with intensity.

So let's speak facts BigMart. Or are you only worried about claiming the sky is falling after a praccy match loss?

[bobmurray]

Peake and McQualter and Geary.

teams have to delist at least 3 players each year if they dont have any retirements....i wonder who the prime candidates are for seasons end....

yes...yes...yes...lets play the season first before worrying about delistings...

still...we need skill and pace not ball sprayers....

tick tick tick...thats the clock ticking on our current star players careers and ross still surrounds them with cloggers hoping they come good......

2011 will be interesting...it should really define the careers of a few fringe players.....

[Con Gorozidis]

[
That is a pretty fair summary.... and i am pretty similar, but not quite.

Also where is Armo? At present Round 1 you would think he has down enough to earn an extended rack to be in the 22.

I think Juniors post was only talking about new players - "new players or untried players". Armo is not a new or untried player.

Junior never said anything about armo not being in the 22. ur arguing against noone SR. I think armo has enough comments in here.

[Con Gorozidis]

ROUND 1

Baker Zac Blake
Raph Fisher Gwilt
Joey Hayes Ray
Steven Roo Gilbert
Milne Stanley Gamble

Ben Goddard Armitage

Dal, Gram, Jones, Lynch

fair team. i think bakes may be in some strife. id have gram bp and smith on the bench. And I have ledger ahead of steven at this stage of the year. i also have stanley at chf and roo at ff but thats a technicality these days.

apart from that looks right.