So - has our opinion of Roo changed after this summer?

[Marcus1232]

Still a champion

I still where the number 12 on the back of my jumpers with pride.

Will go down as one of the greatest saints of all time and deserves to aswell

[Mr Magic]

I've gotta say I'm astonished about a lot of this apparent angst over Roo as our skipper.

I can sort of understand that some may feel others (Lenny/BJ) may make a 'better' captain, whatever that actually means?
But those spruiking a change because basicly they think 'Roo is not up to the job' have me shaking my head in amazement.

Their main reasoning seems to be that he didn't perform magnificently in any of the 3 GF's.

FIrstly I wouldn't personally categorize GF1 in 2010 with the other 2.

Secondly, his pre-game injury prior to 2009 GF coupled with the attrocious weather conditions made it nigh on impossible for any 'tall' to have an impact in that game.

So basicly it's because of his 'lack of performance' in GF2 that posters seem to be basing their thoughts on his on-field leadership?

In case some haven't noticed, Roo is a forward and not a midfielder.
Even Doc and Plugger wouldn't have a huge influence on the game if the footy didn't get near them.

And yet, Roo is 'blamed' for all ills because the footy rarely got into our forward line in GF2. And on those occassions that it did, he found himself contending against more than 1 opponent, due to their zone defense.

How many times have you heard opposition coaches ased 'how are you going to curb the influence of Riewoldt?"
The answer is inevitably:-
'You cannot beat him one on one, you have to stop the ball from getting to him'.

Collingwood did that effectively in GF 2 (not so effectively in GF1) and now Riewoldt is not a good captain becasue they managed to put in place a gameplan that effectively negated his influence?

I can confidently state that IMO without Roo leading us we wouldn't have beaten either of Geelong in the QF or WB in the PF.

Lastly, what makes posters think that the leadership of the Club don't have a clue as to who should/shouldn't be our Club Captain?
They would be privy to all sorts of information and analysis from professionals in many fields that none of us would have any inkling about, and they choose to have Roo.

[matrix]

are you saying that if roo wasnt capt we wouldnt have won those games (pf and gf)?

[Mr Magic]

are you saying that if roo wasnt capt we wouldnt have won those games (pf and gf)?

Yes - not only were his games great, but his on-field leadership was also.

You only have to watch him at games to see the stuff that is rarely shown on television:-

How he speakes to players 'one on one'
How he gathers them into groups to talk to them
How he makes great decisions on-field as to what is best for the tam, without waiting for the runner to come and tell him to do it.

IMO he understands perfectly what his role is and does it to the best of his enormous ability, both as a player and the leader.

[matrix]

cant agree
if he wasnt capt i think he wouldve put in the same effort, done the same things, and led the same way

[Mr Magic]

cant agree
if he wasnt capt i think he wouldve put in the same effort, done the same things, and led the same way

ok,
so what would another person as captain have contributed that would have been an additional benefit to the team?

Surely you're not saying either Lenny or BJ would have given more than they did if they'd been captain?


That's the point I have difficulty with in this whole argument.
SainterK believes the captaincy is 'hindering' Roo's performance and therefore to get the best out of him we should change captains - I don't agree with that assessment.

I think he is the best he can be and gives us great leadership as captain.

I also think that neither Lenny nor BJ would be any better than they are if they were the captain - so nothing would be gained by changing.

[Dr Spaceman]

are you saying that if roo wasnt capt we wouldnt have won those games (pf and gf)?

Yes - not only were his games great, but his on-field leadership was also.

You only have to watch him at games to see the stuff that is rarely shown on television:-

How he speakes to players 'one on one'
How he gathers them into groups to talk to them
How he makes great decisions on-field as to what is best for the tam, without waiting for the runner to come and tell him to do it.

IMO he understands perfectly what his role is and does it to the best of his enormous ability, both as a player and the leader.

You'll never get total agreement MM, and neither you should. These are opinions after all.

But for what it's worth, I'm with you.

[Mr Magic]

are you saying that if roo wasnt capt we wouldnt have won those games (pf and gf)?

Yes - not only were his games great, but his on-field leadership was also.

You only have to watch him at games to see the stuff that is rarely shown on television:-

How he speakes to players 'one on one'
How he gathers them into groups to talk to them
How he makes great decisions on-field as to what is best for the tam, without waiting for the runner to come and tell him to do it.

IMO he understands perfectly what his role is and does it to the best of his enormous ability, both as a player and the leader.

You'll never get total agreement MM, and neither you should. These are opinions after all.

But for what it's worth, I'm with you.

Yes it is only my opinion and for what it's worth I'm not trying to denigrate any opposite opinion (other than the nonsensical rant, IMO, of WinnersOnly)

We all watch the same games and yet many walk away having seen completely the opposite of each other.
It's often our own personal perspectives.

I'm just wondering what people feel the job of Captain actually entails?

[WinnersOnly]

cant agree
if he wasnt capt i think he wouldve put in the same effort, done the same things, and led the same way

ok,
so what would another person as captain have contributed that would have been an additional benefit to the team?

Surely you're not saying either Lenny or BJ would have given more than they did if they'd been captain?


That's the point I have difficulty with in this whole argument.
SainterK believes the captaincy is 'hindering' Roo's performance and therefore to get the best out of him we should change captains - I don't agree with that assessment.

I think he is the best he can be and gives us great leadership as captain.

I also think that neither Lenny nor BJ would be any better than they are if they were the captain - so nothing would be gained by changing.

Mr Magic - it is not about what the individual captain can do to win the game, its about how that person affects and inspires his team mates. That his team mates walk taller when they are standing next to him. I dont believe ROO brings that to the team.

How ROO reacted in the GF replay was not the action of a leader, it was the actions of a great player down on himself for having a bad day. He did nothing to try and lift his team when it was needed. No the loss wasn't all his fault there were 21 other players - but a good captain wouldn't have just rolled over like ROO did in that game!

[spert]

To me the real test of a champion is to perform in finals especially the big one where it counts, and unfortunately, Roo has yet to pass that test.

[St. Luke]

Could not care less about his private life, I want him to dominate a GF and win us a flag.

Couldn't agree more (god I hate agreeing with you!)

[matrix]

cant agree
if he wasnt capt i think he wouldve put in the same effort, done the same things, and led the same way

ok,
so what would another person as captain have contributed that would have been an additional benefit to the team?

Surely you're not saying either Lenny or BJ would have given more than they did if they'd been captain?


That's the point I have difficulty with in this whole argument.
SainterK believes the captaincy is 'hindering' Roo's performance and therefore to get the best out of him we should change captains - I don't agree with that assessment.

I think he is the best he can be and gives us great leadership as captain.

I also think that neither Lenny nor BJ would be any better than they are if they were the captain - so nothing would be gained by changing.

no, no im not and no i didnt
im saying if roo wasnt capt (imo) he would not have given any less on the day, and if bj or lenny was capt they wouldnt have given any more or less either
pretty straight forward opinion i thought

[SainterK]

cant agree
if he wasnt capt i think he wouldve put in the same effort, done the same things, and led the same way

ok,
so what would another person as captain have contributed that would have been an additional benefit to the team?

Surely you're not saying either Lenny or BJ would have given more than they did if they'd been captain?


That's the point I have difficulty with in this whole argument.
SainterK believes the captaincy is 'hindering' Roo's performance and therefore to get the best out of him we should change captains - I don't agree with that assessment.

I think he is the best he can be and gives us great leadership as captain.

I also think that neither Lenny nor BJ would be any better than they are if they were the captain - so nothing would be gained by changing.

Lenny or BJ really couldn't be any better though?

Lenny is a Norm Smith medallist, why would he be under any kind of pressure when we make another GF?

In many peoples opinions, Goddard should of been the Norm Smith medallist, why would he be under any sort of pressure when we make
another GF?

People may not agree with me, but I wish they could actually see where I'm coming from.

[HSVKing]

It's a relief to know he is human.... had me worried for a while there.

Spot on.

Think it's good to see stars who aren't robotic.

[DWOODROW]

I have to say this summer has changed my view of him.

I'm going to start shaving my body now to see if it improves my football to his level.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I'm shocked to find there's a single supporter with anything sincerely negative to say of Reiwoldt on the basis of the summer. While we've all got the right, I'd suggest critics examine their own motivation as much as anything.

While he's featured in a number of stories... I can't think of anything in any one of those stories that actually diminishes him. As individuals, we might wish individual actions had been delivered just so... but it's real life, not a TV show, and it's a real person, not Captain America. If the incidents of the summer have made that clearer to a few, at least that's something positive out of a whole lotta mess.

Best line I've seen is from the article linked in this thread, last line:

"In a summer of discontent, the question remains: who has the real cultural problem?

Players or viewers?"

[Finna]

I'm shocked to find there's a single supporter with anything sincerely negative to say of Reiwoldt on the basis of the summer. While we've all got the right, I'd suggest critics examine their own motivation as much as anything.

While he's featured in a number of stories... I can't think of anything in any one of those stories that actually diminishes him. As individuals, we might wish individual actions had been delivered just so... but it's real life, not a TV show, and it's a real person, not Captain America. If the incidents of the summer have made that clearer to a few, at least that's something positive out of a whole lotta mess.

Best line I've seen is from the article linked in this thread, last line:

"In a summer of discontent, the question remains: who has the real cultural problem?

Players or viewers?"

Agree.

Seriously, the stuff that is supposedly tarnishing his reputation - if thats all anyone's got on him.......FFS - the guy must be a Saint (pun intended).

As for his captaincy......I, like eveyone else, would love to see him run riot on GF day but as a few have mentioned we wouldnt have made it to the 2009 and 2010 GF's without him.

At the end of the day he is one of the best players in the AFL and almost any other club would take him in a heartbeat and make him captain.

[saintsRrising]

Australia is the land of the Tall Poppy Syndrome.

The Media and BigFooties current pursuit of Roo is clear evidence of that.

The AFL is being swept through to at the moment with an overly puritanical attitude that is not actually how 99% of us live.

Now don't get me wrong, mixing booze and sleeping tablets should not be tolerated or accepted, but for example the recent Doggies Video is much to do about nothing.

Mrs F-bomb is a clear example of someone too full of herself. 99.99% of people on doing what she did if they had copped a f-bomb would just have accepted that the players were a bit low at a bad time.


Mind you it would probably help if Nixon was not such an a-hole in how he deals with people. His job as manager should be to quench any spot fires rather than fanning the flames.

[saintly]

To me the real test of a champion is to perform in finals especially the big one where it counts, and unfortunately, Roo has yet to pass that test.

and unfortuantely he was injured in the GF 2009

[ralphsmith]

I think of him more as a human being, and someone who has to cop such a gigantic amount of abuse and criticism because of who he is.

He's not a bald ugly player like Judd or Ablett. Uglies who can fade into a crowd of nobodies and blend in perfectly. Riewoldt will stand out because he looks different, like a greek demi-god.

To make it worse, he's a champion footballer. He has a gigantic tank and heart he has the ability to pull our team over the line.

Combine it all, and tall poppy syndrome goes into overdrive. Yes people try to cut him and down all the time.

I just wish he could star in a grand final with the saints.

[joffaboy]

To me the real test of a champion is to perform in finals especially the big one where it counts, and unfortunately, Roo has yet to pass that test.

and unfortuantely he was injured in the GF 2009

So Carey wasn't a true champion then. He was well held in all three GF's in the 90's

[Mr Magic]

cant agree
if he wasnt capt i think he wouldve put in the same effort, done the same things, and led the same way

ok,
so what would another person as captain have contributed that would have been an additional benefit to the team?

Surely you're not saying either Lenny or BJ would have given more than they did if they'd been captain?


That's the point I have difficulty with in this whole argument.
SainterK believes the captaincy is 'hindering' Roo's performance and therefore to get the best out of him we should change captains - I don't agree with that assessment.

I think he is the best he can be and gives us great leadership as captain.

I also think that neither Lenny nor BJ would be any better than they are if they were the captain - so nothing would be gained by changing.

Lenny or BJ really couldn't be any better though?

Lenny is a Norm Smith medallist, why would he be under any kind of pressure when we make another GF?

In many peoples opinions, Goddard should of been the Norm Smith medallist, why would he be under any sort of pressure when we make
another GF?

People may not agree with me, but I wish they could actually see where I'm coming from.

'K' if I've misinterpreted what it is you're saying then I aploogize.
I thought you were trying to make the point that you believ the captaincy was 'weighing' on Roo and therefore give it to Lenny/BJ so as to allow Roo to perform better on GF day.

If that is what you were trying to say, tehn I disagree with you. I don't think the captaincy is 'weighing' on him at all - if anything I think he uses it as a 'spur' to try even harder (if that's possible?)

I agree that I don't think that being captain would hinder either Lenny or BJ either.

So given that I don't believe it's negatively affecting Roo by being captain, how would it be beneficial to the team to strip him of it, unless there is a better captain amongst the others?

[barks4eva]

Aside from voting for Abbott has he actually done anything wrong?

[meher baba]

Aside from voting for Abbott has he actually done anything wrong?

I didn't know he did that. It's a pretty big black mark against him from my point of view.

Oh well, as someone said recently (I forget who ATM), s*** happens.

[Moods]

To me the real test of a champion is to perform in finals especially the big one where it counts, and unfortunately, Roo has yet to pass that test.

and unfortuantely he was injured in the GF 2009

So Carey wasn't a true champion then. He was well held in all three GF's in the 90's

Exactly. In fact in the 98 GF when the Roos were clear favourite, not only were the roos well beaten, but it appeared to me that Carey had given up.

It shows the measure in which we all hold Roo, that we expect him to dominate a GF in pouring rain when injured, or to kick 5 goals against one of the best defensive teams in the comp when the ball comes into his area 20% less than what he is used to most weeks. (35 inside 50's in BOTH gf's ) We won't even discuss the delivery as unfortunately that often happens in GF's.

can anyone name me a key fwd in the last 30 years who has been instrumental to their team winning a GF? Apart from Brereton (who also played his fair share of shockers in GF's) I can't think of any. A few who played well in losing GF's, but not many who you could say were responsible for dragging their team over the line.