Who have we got as back up ruck?

Moods · Post: # 1038725Post **Moods** » Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:37pm

With kosi out for awhile, gardi out, stanley suspended - poor old Big Ben wouldn't want to get injured. We saw what happened to the hawks last year without a proper ruckman.

Who will ruck in the nab cup? Blake? THoughts?

Dr Spaceman · Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:44pm

Moods wrote:With kosi out for awhile, gardi out, stanley suspended - poor old Big Ben wouldn't want to get injured. We saw what happened to the hawks last year without a proper ruckman.

Who will ruck in the nab cup? Blake? THoughts?

Ross has also flagged Tommy Walsh and Daniel Archer (both Rookies) to help in the ruck during tha NAB Cup.

matrix · Post: # 1038731Post **matrix** » Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:47pm

blakes the other backup

Con Gorozidis · Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:49pm

simply put we dont have one for the nab cup.
i read that lyon was saying Walsh and even Archer might get a run in the ruck in the nab cup. Who knows. Gilbo or Lynch or Johnson or some other 6'4 guy might get a run.

But yeah in the real world when the real stuff starts we need 2 decent rucks. Jolly made us look silly in the 2 GFs. So we need all our Rucks - Kosi, Gardi, Mac and Rhys available all year.

Moods · Post: # 1038736Post **Moods** » Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:52pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:simply put we dont have one for the nab cup.
i read that lyon was saying Walsh and even Archer might get a run in the ruck in the nab cup. Who knows. Gilbo or Lynch or Johnson or some other 6'4 guy might get a run.

But yeah in the real world when the real stuff starts we need 2 decent rucks. Jolly made us look silly in the 2 GFs. So we need all our Rucks - Kosi, Gardi, Mac and Rhys available all year.

Don't agree - The consensus was that Jolly was beaten by Kos in the drawn GF. people only remember him toweling up a 20 yr old kid in the replay.

bobmurray · Post: # 1038737Post **bobmurray** » Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:53pm

There's a touch of GT about our current ruck stocks.....

I wonder if Ross has ventured down to the archives and browsed through GT's game plan......or maybe it was the game plan left in the coaches box by some loony tune.....

Con Gorozidis · Tue 08 Feb 2011 9:57pm

Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:simply put we dont have one for the nab cup.
i read that lyon was saying Walsh and even Archer might get a run in the ruck in the nab cup. Who knows. Gilbo or Lynch or Johnson or some other 6'4 guy might get a run.

But yeah in the real world when the real stuff starts we need 2 decent rucks. Jolly made us look silly in the 2 GFs. So we need all our Rucks - Kosi, Gardi, Mac and Rhys available all year.
Don't agree - The consensus was that Jolly was beaten by Kos in the drawn GF. people only remember him toweling up a 20 yr old kid in the replay.

consensus? i dont give a toss for any consensus. no idea what game u were watching. i remember gf 1 very clearly - i also had the best seats in the house. i was watching the game where jolly kept tapping it down swans throat and winning every single clearance. luckily they kept missing goals and kept us in it and we had a great 3rd quarter where kosi at least competed and nullified in the ruck. but u are seriously kidding yourself. jolly toweled us up in gf 1 in the first half - was probably norm smith at half time . did u watch the game or just read about it later?

Moods · Post: # 1038748Post **Moods** » Tue 08 Feb 2011 10:04pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:
Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:simply put we dont have one for the nab cup.
i read that lyon was saying Walsh and even Archer might get a run in the ruck in the nab cup. Who knows. Gilbo or Lynch or Johnson or some other 6'4 guy might get a run.

But yeah in the real world when the real stuff starts we need 2 decent rucks. Jolly made us look silly in the 2 GFs. So we need all our Rucks - Kosi, Gardi, Mac and Rhys available all year.
Don't agree - The consensus was that Jolly was beaten by Kos in the drawn GF. people only remember him toweling up a 20 yr old kid in the replay.
consensus? i dont give a toss for any consensus. no idea what game u were watching. i was watching the one where jolley kept tapping it down swans throat and winning every single clearance. luckily they kept missing goals and kept us in it and we had a great 3rd quarter where kosi at least competed and nullified in the ruck. but u are seriously kidding yourself. jolley toweled us up in gf 1 in the first half - was probably norm smith at half time . did u watch the game or just read about it later?

No no - I must have just read about it later. Lucky I have you here to explain it to me. How many possessions did Swan have in that 1st GF again? I mean with the ball constantly going down his throat he must have got about 40?

Glad that we've cleared up that the 'consensus' are completely deluded and you are right. Of course maybe I just watched the 2nd half and you only watched the 1st half. It's my humble opinion that Jolly was crapola in the 1st GF. The only problem was that Gardiner was also crap until injured. Once we had a bloke competing (as you put it) we suddenly got back into the game.

Con Gorozidis · Tue 08 Feb 2011 10:12pm

Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:
Moods wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:simply put we dont have one for the nab cup.
i read that lyon was saying Walsh and even Archer might get a run in the ruck in the nab cup. Who knows. Gilbo or Lynch or Johnson or some other 6'4 guy might get a run.

But yeah in the real world when the real stuff starts we need 2 decent rucks. Jolly made us look silly in the 2 GFs. So we need all our Rucks - Kosi, Gardi, Mac and Rhys available all year.
Don't agree - The consensus was that Jolly was beaten by Kos in the drawn GF. people only remember him toweling up a 20 yr old kid in the replay.
consensus? i dont give a toss for any consensus. no idea what game u were watching. i was watching the one where jolley kept tapping it down swans throat and winning every single clearance. luckily they kept missing goals and kept us in it and we had a great 3rd quarter where kosi at least competed and nullified in the ruck. but u are seriously kidding yourself. jolley toweled us up in gf 1 in the first half - was probably norm smith at half time . did u watch the game or just read about it later?
No no - I must have just read about it later. Lucky I have you here to explain it to me. How many possessions did Swan have in that 1st GF again? I mean with the ball constantly going down his throat he must have got about 40?

Glad that we've cleared up that the 'consensus' are completely deluded and you are right. Of course maybe I just watched the 2nd half and you only watched the 1st half. It's my humble opinion that Jolly was crapola in the 1st GF. The only problem was that Gardiner was also crap until injured. Once we had a bloke competing (as you put it) we suddenly got back into the game.

i havent read the stats. but we were getting murdered in the clearances from stoppages for a large portion of the game. ON the topic but a slight departure - amazing thing about saints in the last 2 years is how many quarters we have lost yet still won the game. i havent checked the stats but our games won: quarters won ratio must be very high.

kosi did good no doubts. just saying we well need everything to go right this year with our rucks. having blakey or someone around 190cm can work for a few minutes at a time when they jump high - but tall big good ruckmen eventually take over and u cant afford to lose clearances for long periods. was heart in mouth stuff last year and my heart cant cope. our backline can only defend and rebound so many attacks .

Con Gorozidis · Tue 08 Feb 2011 10:20pm

Moods wrote: No no - I must have just read about it later. Lucky I have you here to explain it to me. How many possessions did Swan have in that 1st GF again? I mean with the ball constantly going down his throat he must have got about 40?

just checked the stats for gf 1 - swan had 8 inside 50's . the most on the ground. next best was sidebottom with 6. highest saint was lenny with 5. I know people made a big deal of the 21 posessions being lower than his average - but we all know u can get cheap numbers in the backline. 8 IS50s in basically a half is awesome - and mainly due to his partnership with jolly.

so yeah - my impressions were correct. swan had it knocked down his throat constantly and kept pumping it inside 50. and from where i was watching jolly and swan partnership was super damaging. considering ray did a good job on swan in the 2nd half - swan must have had almost 8 IS50 in the first half. An amazing effort.

I just dont think we can keep affording to lose clearances and have the opposition pump it inside 50 100 times a game. our defence has been gallant and brilliant for the last 2 years. but we need to give them a break. if they keep copping it on their heads sooner or later we will start losing games. we need to improve our ruck/clearance count this year IMHO.

st_Trav_ofWA · Wed 09 Feb 2011 12:02am

who gives a hoot about Swan or Jolly !!!

i dont think we are really that interested in the triple header side of the NAB cup so maybe ross will go with someone totally left of feild for the back up ruck spot .....

dcstkfc · Post: # 1038790Post **dcstkfc** » Wed 09 Feb 2011 12:03am

Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go.

Added to the retirements of King and Gaertner and this is now our order in terms of height:

McEvoy 200cm
Stanley 200cm
Koschitzke 197cm
Dawson 195cm
Walsh 195cm
Gilbert 194cm
Ferguson 194cm
Riewoldt 193cm
Archer 193cm

There are a number of others between 190 and 192, and Blake is only 189!

Essentially, our ruck stocks are VERY THIN

Big Mac HAS to stay fit now

st_Trav_ofWA · Wed 09 Feb 2011 12:05am

dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go

why Milne with a broomstick is better than both patto and Mcgrath... heck we would be more wishing we had Rix back rather than those two ...

spert · Post: # 1038819Post **spert** » Wed 09 Feb 2011 8:15am

st_Trav_ofWA wrote:
dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go
why Milne with a broomstick is better than both patto and Mcgrath... heck we would be more wishing we had Rix back rather than those two ...

Except in any final in Milne's case..he needed a stick up his...

spert · Post: # 1038820Post **spert** » Wed 09 Feb 2011 8:20am

Just thinking actually about our rucks..Kosi is at the best a standby ruck who is not going to improve, Gards is on the way out, Blake can perform ruck duties with little effect, Big Ben is still learning and will be an asset, and that's it. Pretty poor effort from RL and co. addressing this area, as it's bleedin' obvious that to win a flag you need winning rucks and we really should have been bringing through more young ruckman and persisting with them.

WinnersOnly · Wed 09 Feb 2011 8:28am

I raised that I though we need another developing Ruckman on our list with John PEAKE before he left. He indicated that the club were happy with what they had on the list for this year as they were wanting to see the affects the substitute/interchange rule had on the second ruckman role.

So it looks like they will use players like Kosi to rotate through as the relief ruckman. In the early part at least our substitute player may become the 2nd ruckmen.

I think the role Leigh Brown (194cms) played has changed how clubs will approach the relief ruckman position.

SainterK · Post: # 1038825Post **SainterK** » Wed 09 Feb 2011 8:35am

dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go.

Added to the retirements of King and Gaertner and this is now our order in terms of height:

McEvoy 200cm
Stanley 200cm
Koschitzke 197cm
Dawson 195cm
Walsh 195cm
Gilbert 194cm
Ferguson 194cm
Riewoldt 193cm
Archer 193cm

There are a number of others between 190 and 192, and Blake is only 189!

Essentially, our ruck stocks are VERY THIN

Big Mac HAS to stay fit now

Look at Patty Ryder in (I think it was) 2009, sometimes it can cause something special to happen.

Bardon Saint · Wed 09 Feb 2011 8:41am

dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go.

Added to the retirements of King and Gaertner and this is now our order in terms of height:

McEvoy 200cm
Stanley 200cm
Koschitzke 197cm
Dawson 195cm
Walsh 195cm
Gilbert 194cm
Ferguson 194cm
Riewoldt 193cm
Archer 193cm

There are a number of others between 190 and 192, and Blake is only 189!

Essentially, our ruck stocks are VERY THIN

Big Mac HAS to stay fit now

Missing Gardiner who is up around 200cm

stkildathunda · Wed 09 Feb 2011 9:10am

SainterK wrote:
dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go.

Added to the retirements of King and Gaertner and this is now our order in terms of height:

McEvoy 200cm
Stanley 200cm
Koschitzke 197cm
Dawson 195cm
Walsh 195cm
Gilbert 194cm
Ferguson 194cm
Riewoldt 193cm
Archer 193cm

There are a number of others between 190 and 192, and Blake is only 189!

Essentially, our ruck stocks are VERY THIN

Big Mac HAS to stay fit now
Look at Patty Ryder in (I think it was) 2009, sometimes it can cause something special to happen.

Patty Ryder has an amazing vertical leap though, only person on our list capable of that is Stanley....

IMO they should have kept Patto on the list as backup, he wasnt anything special but he gave 110% every game and well he is better then having no ruckman... What the hell will happen if Big Mac goes down during the NAB Cup?
Gardi & Kosi are injury prone to the max, when was the last time we got a full season out of either of those. Stanley is still young, Blake is getting old and is pretty vital to our backline... Doesnt make sense throwing all your eggs into the one basket...

IluvHarvey · Wed 09 Feb 2011 9:15am

spert wrote:
st_Trav_ofWA wrote:
dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go
why Milne with a broomstick is better than both patto and Mcgrath... heck we would be more wishing we had Rix back rather than those two ...
Except in any final in Milne's case..he needed a stick up his...

Didn't Milne kick the most amount of goals in last years final series? Or am I mistaken?

InkerSaint · Wed 09 Feb 2011 9:20am

spert wrote:
st_Trav_ofWA wrote:
dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go
why Milne with a broomstick is better than both patto and Mcgrath... heck we would be more wishing we had Rix back rather than those two ...
Except in any final in Milne's case..he needed a stick up his...

You need to take the blinkers off mate. Milne kicked the most goals in last year's finals of any St Kilda player.

Con Gorozidis · Wed 09 Feb 2011 9:21am

stkildathunda wrote:
SainterK wrote:
There are a number of others between 190 and 192, and Blake is only 189!

Essentially, our ruck stocks are VERY THIN

Big Mac HAS to stay fit now
Look at Patty Ryder in (I think it was) 2009, sometimes it can cause something special to happen.

Patty Ryder has an amazing vertical leap though, only person on our list capable of that is Stanley....

IMO they should have kept Patto on the list as backup, he wasnt anything special but he gave 110% every game and well he is better then having no ruckman... What the hell will happen if Big Mac goes down during the NAB Cup?
Gardi & Kosi are injury prone to the max, when was the last time we got a full season out of either of those. Stanley is still young, Blake is getting old and is pretty vital to our backline... Doesnt make sense throwing all your eggs into the one basket...

+ 1 = paddy ryder has a freak vertical leap. anyway - clearly lyon is going for a ruck rover style approach to rucks. GT is going to be painful this season with his "i told u sos". im amazed we let patto go. he wasnt holding anyone back. he was fit and durable and a good trainer and was on minimum wage. he was good sensible risk mitigation.

oh well - lets give kosi all the time he needs - dont rush him. get him right and hopefully he becomes a good 2nd ruck/utility player. i think his FF days are over now. So he can look fwd to a new chapter in his career.

SainterK · Post: # 1038850Post **SainterK** » Wed 09 Feb 2011 9:25am

stkildathunda wrote:
SainterK wrote:
dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go.

Added to the retirements of King and Gaertner and this is now our order in terms of height:

McEvoy 200cm
Stanley 200cm
Koschitzke 197cm
Dawson 195cm
Walsh 195cm
Gilbert 194cm
Ferguson 194cm
Riewoldt 193cm
Archer 193cm

There are a number of others between 190 and 192, and Blake is only 189!

Essentially, our ruck stocks are VERY THIN

Big Mac HAS to stay fit now
Look at Patty Ryder in (I think it was) 2009, sometimes it can cause something special to happen.
Patty Ryder has an amazing vertical leap though, only person on our list capable of that is Stanley....

IMO they should have kept Patto on the list as backup, he wasnt anything special but he gave 110% every game and well he is better then having no ruckman... What the hell will happen if Big Mac goes down during the NAB Cup?
Gardi & Kosi are injury prone to the max, when was the last time we got a full season out of either of those. Stanley is still young, Blake is getting old and is pretty vital to our backline... Doesnt make sense throwing all your eggs into the one basket...

Oh I wasn't meaning to compare Patty to anyone our list as far as ability went, more that he stepped up when an opportunity presented itself.

InkerSaint · Wed 09 Feb 2011 9:43am

InkerSaint wrote:
spert wrote:
st_Trav_ofWA wrote:
dcstkfc wrote:Starting to regret letting both Patto and McGrath go
why Milne with a broomstick is better than both patto and Mcgrath... heck we would be more wishing we had Rix back rather than those two ...
Except in any final in Milne's case..he needed a stick up his...
You need to take the blinkers off mate. Milne kicked the most goals in last year's finals of any St Kilda player.

Actually it goes further than that.

Milne kicked more goals than any other player in the AFL in last year's finals.

saintsRrising · Wed 09 Feb 2011 10:18am

Back up ruck?

I think the players were casting an eye over Ken Walker yesterday....

Who have we got as back up ruck?

Who have we got as back up ruck?

Re: Who have we got as back up ruck?

I raised our lack of rucks with John PEAKE...