Out Of The Disaster.

[GrumpyOne]

I know this compares very little with the Queensland Floods, but to all SS posters the loss of our Forum was our own little disaster.

Like the Queensland floods, there will be a time after the disaster passes that we re-evaluate our situation with a view to this not happening again.

Some soul-searching has to be done by the admin in the wake of this crisis.

Without pointing fingers at the admin, who have done a fantastic job to get us back on line in the circumstances, some hard questions need to be asked and answered.

Is the present ownership situation sufficient to handle these problems? Is too much dependant on Battye's good nature? Should the load be spread over a management group?

Is the software we are running on sufficient to repel invaders? We have been hacked twice now recently. Do we need something better and more expensive? Is there a need for a registration fee, fund-raising activities, sponsorship to gain more operating funds?

Do we have the best host, and not the best host we can afford?

Should there be a back-up system, such as personal email, to advise users when the site is down? Info on Big Footy and other sites was erratic at best.

Once again, congrats to the Admin on getting us back up. but we should be learning from this situation to make sure every possible step is taken to avoid a re-occurence.

[InkerSaint]

Since I am on public record over at Bigfooty having queried this, and trying to be tactful considering that I'm not familiar with the hosting setup (it's also none of my business), I'll have a stab at answering some of this:

With regards to the hacks it depends what "attack vector" was used, ie. what part of the server was exploited to execute the hack. This could be anything from the HTTP service to the site database to the forum software. If this site is being run on "managed hosting" (and I gather that it is based on Battye's comments that we were not the only site affected by the server failure) then the first two components are under the hosting company's control, and I believe the forum software is under our site admin's control.

The best protection against being hacked is to maintain patch levels. As soon as an exploit is discovered, a software patch is released (hopefully) shortly afterward to close off the exploit. The older an exploit is the more likely that someone has worked out how to use it to gain unauthorised system access.

Cutting over to a new site host can be done but it involves money and downtime. I'll add that in my opinion the hosting company has been found wanting in their support response, and they do not enjoy a great reputation on whirpool.net.au having degraded in service post-merger with another company (common story eh?). There are probably better deals out there.

Mods feel free to gag me on this if any part of it is considered out of line.

[meher baba]

Tony Abbott might suggest that the solution would be to build more dams.

Seriously, it's a forum run by volunteers on an el cheapo platform. These things are going to happen from time to time unless we accept advertising or charge for membership or some such unpalatable thing. Nothing is permanant, all things must pass, etc.

I'm just grateful that SS is back for now. Thanks and well done to all involved

[battye]

This topic contains some good questions.

Firstly, GrumpyOne I think a list of emails to contact in the event of downtime would be a good idea. I mentioned the webhosting situation in reply to your eariler post in the downtime topic:

We are paid through to December 2011 with this webhosting company (and I should hope plus a few weeks, considering we should be reimbursed for the downtime). There is no question that the webhosting company is at fault in my view, in the event of a hardware failure they should have had backups of all client websites and been able to deploy them to another server reasonably quickly. Their technical support has been poor in the past but not this poor; I will be contacting them again soon to discuss reimbursement for the downtime and to see what they have in place to ensure this never happens again. The next step, providing they don't offer some pretty convincing answers, would be to look at alternative companies for 2012 and beyond.

InkerSaint, there is a newer version of the forum software available and now is probably the ideal time to try and upgrade. The only issue is the sheer size of the database - there are ways around it (ie. by doing the conversion offline, it is a major upgrade so the format of the database needs to be changed significantly) but it would require some co-ordination with the webhost. I don't think it was the forum software which allowed the hacking attempt, but as you said it is something that is within our control so I'm trying to get the ball rolling on this.

[GrumpyOne]

Thanks Battye for your consideration of these suggestions.

In my business, when the s*** hits the fan, and you have cleaned it up, we always have a review of what happened to see if we could do better. That is no reflection on those that were present at the time, its an organisational thing not a personal thing.

If we need more $$$ that is something that can be achieved, and I would be prepared to work with you to explore options to achieve that with minimal impact on our valued posters.

[stinger]

Tony Abbott might suggest that the solution would be to build more dams.

Seriously, it's a forum run by volunteers on an el cheapo platform. These things are going to happen from time to time unless we accept advertising or charge for membership or some such unpalatable thing. Nothing is permanant, all things must pass, etc.

I'm just grateful that SS is back for now. Thanks and well done to all involved

i find it totally predictable that a certain poster is now using the fact that ss crashed for awhile to push his own pathetic agenda.....

[borderbarry]

I noticed that "West of Moorabbin" had an emergency forum up for the duration, but not many were aware of it or used it.

[GrumpyOne]

Tony Abbott might suggest that the solution would be to build more dams.

Seriously, it's a forum run by volunteers on an el cheapo platform. These things are going to happen from time to time unless we accept advertising or charge for membership or some such unpalatable thing. Nothing is permanant, all things must pass, etc.

I'm just grateful that SS is back for now. Thanks and well done to all involved

i find it totally predictable that a certain poster is now using the fact that ss crashed for awhile to push his own pathetic agenda.....

Apart from the gratuitous shot at Tony Abbott, I can't see what is wrong with Meher's post.

If you are not moving forward in the world, you are moving backward. There is no standing still.

Stinger, how about you and I pitch in a thou each and buy the site?

Could do a lot worse.

[stinger]

Tony Abbott might suggest that the solution would be to build more dams.

Seriously, it's a forum run by volunteers on an el cheapo platform. These things are going to happen from time to time unless we accept advertising or charge for membership or some such unpalatable thing. Nothing is permanant, all things must pass, etc.

I'm just grateful that SS is back for now. Thanks and well done to all involved

i find it totally predictable that a certain poster is now using the fact that ss crashed for awhile to push his own pathetic agenda.....

Apart from the gratuitous shot at Tony Abbott, I can't see what is wrong with Meher's post.

If you are not moving forward in the world, you are moving backward. There is no standing still.

Stinger, how about you and I pitch in a thou each and buy the site?

Could do a lot worse.

okay

[GrumpyOne]

Tony Abbott might suggest that the solution would be to build more dams.

Seriously, it's a forum run by volunteers on an el cheapo platform. These things are going to happen from time to time unless we accept advertising or charge for membership or some such unpalatable thing. Nothing is permanant, all things must pass, etc.

I'm just grateful that SS is back for now. Thanks and well done to all involved

i find it totally predictable that a certain poster is now using the fact that ss crashed for awhile to push his own pathetic agenda.....

Apart from the gratuitous shot at Tony Abbott, I can't see what is wrong with Meher's post.

If you are not moving forward in the world, you are moving backward. There is no standing still.

Stinger, how about you and I pitch in a thou each and buy the site?

Could do a lot worse.

okay

Do you want to PM Battye with the offer, or will I?

[stinger]

no...your idea.....you can do it.....i will back you though....

[therabbitinthehat]

1. Is the present ownership situation sufficient to handle these problems? Is too much dependant on Battye's good nature? Should the load be spread over a management group?

2. Is the software we are running on sufficient to repel invaders? We have been hacked twice now recently. Do we need something better and more expensive? Is there a need for a registration fee, fund-raising activities, sponsorship to gain more operating funds?

3. Do we have the best host, and not the best host we can afford?

4. Should there be a back-up system, such as personal email, to advise users when the site is down? Info on Big Footy and other sites was erratic at best.

Some fair questions, here's my attempt to answer them:
1. I'm not sure who the ownership group is, but I do know saintbrat got in contact with Mr Magic to find out if he knew anything as he paid the webhosting fees. Mr Magic passed the info on to me to see if I could help (i'm Mr Magic's son and do a little work in the IT field). Eventually battye and I started emailing each other to figure out what exactly was happening and how to fix it. Ideally, imho, the site would have a head admin (battye, since it's his site) with a couple of secondary contacts to help deal with any issues should they arise.

2. Our software wasn't the issue in this case, but keeping our software up to date should be done anyway. Unfortunately the site can't mandate the webhost to update and secure their own software, but they should be doing it as a matter of course for their own systems, at the least to stop massive downtimes like what just occurred. The amount we pay for hosting is on the mid-to-slightly expensive range for most webhosts, and spending more wouldn't achieve any better security than what we have.

3. Swapping to a new webhost with better tech and customer support might be a good idea. Unfortunately (or fortunately) you never really know how good a webhost is until you have problems with them and how they respond to those problems. I can recommend a couple from past experiences should they be asked for.

4. Definitely a personal backup should be maintained in case a similar issue arises again - when the webhost hasn't backed up your website or has lost the backups. Personally I've never seen that situation before what happened here - but I guess that proves it can actually happen. In my email conversations with battye I suggested a way to do this, but it does rely on what underlying system the webhost is running the site on, and what it is possible to do with it. Facebook/twitter news updates are probably also a good way to keep people informed of what is happening if the site is down, as well as posting to a couple of other football forums that other people check out. I know a couple of other forums I frequent have reciprocal deals with other forums that maintain VIP accounts with eachother to post info into should their website go down - the more people informed as to what is happening, the less panic.

[barks4eva]

Stinger, how about you and I pitch in a thou each and buy the site?

Could do a lot worse.

okay

Do you want to PM Battye with the offer, or will I?

FAIR DINKUM

So now you want to take over the forum with stinger as your partner!

KEEP IT REAL, LOL

For a thou each, FAIR DINKUM, are you serious?

You'd be outbid, before I could say todger tugging, rodger rubbing, pole smoking, tackle toking, willy whipping, derriere dipping, johnson jangling, wrist wrangling, salami slapping, foreskin flapping, knob polishing, python siphoning bone monkey!

[markp]

Thy reckons thee would have to pay a lot more than a couple of thou.

[GrumpyOne]

B4 and Mark.

Do you want to join the consortium.

$1000 a share?

[barks4eva]

B4 and Mark.

Do you want to join the consortium.

$1000 a share?

FAIR DINKUM, enough already!


Just let the good people who are running things do the good job they are doing already!

You spend most of your time bitching about one thing or another about the site, mod selection, how it's run, rule this, rule that, home page, etc...etc... just give it a FAIR DINKUM rest and enjoy the site for what it is, purely and simply a footy forum!

FWIW, YOU and Stinger would be the last people I'd want to share ownership of this forum with!

[stinger]

B4 and Mark.

Do you want to join the consortium.

$1000 a share?

we can go a lot higher...a whole lot higher...a consortium would be a good idea...no b4e though.....that would be a bridge too far....

[stinger]

FWIW, YOU and Stinger would be the last people I'd want to share ownership of this forum with!

well..afaic...you are half right there......g o at least has a clue....you on the other hand....

[barks4eva]

B4 and Mark.

Do you want to join the consortium.

$1000 a share?

we can go a lot higher...a whole lot higher...a consortium would be a good idea...no b4e though.....that would be a bridge too far....

You clowns carrying on about buying the forum, FAIR DINKUM, what an absolute joke!

The admins and mods all do a good job as it is, the site is fine, seriously do you people need a reminder THIS IS A FOOTY FORUM, just enjoy it for what it is!

Putting you and Grumpy One in control of the place, yeah that's going to make it much better!

[stinger]

B4 and Mark.

Do you want to join the consortium.

$1000 a share?

we can go a lot higher...a whole lot higher...a consortium would be a good idea...no b4e though.....that would be a bridge too far....

You clowns carrying on about buying the forum, FAIR DINKUM, what an absolute joke!

The admins and mods all do a good job as it is, the site is fine, seriously do you people need a reminder THIS IS A FOOTY FORUM, just enjoy it for what it is!

Putting you and Grumpy One in control of the place, yeah that's going to make it much better!

not as silly as you trying to take over the st kilda football club ffs....

[Richter]

FAIR DINKUM, enough already!

Just let the good people who are running things do the good job they are doing already!

You spend most of your time bitching about one thing or another about the site, mod selection, how it's run, rule this, rule that, home page, etc...etc... just give it a FAIR DINKUM rest and enjoy the site for what it is, purely and simply a footy forum!

Amen brother.