Club needs to be held to account re guernsey

[Kilda]

I just responded to an earlier post regarding away guerneys for 2011 onwards. But I want to open up the matter further. Yes, I am not happy with the 'liquid paper Saints jumper' worn this year and regrettably in this year's Grand Finals. However, it's part of a greater malaise within the club. That is, the St Kilda Board (past and present) is not adhering to the club's constitution that states that 75% member approval is required to alter club icons such as the name, the mascot, colours and guernsey design.

Jumper designs at St Kilda have been plentiful in the past 15 years and there seems to be no indication that this trend will alter in the future. But what does need to alter is that the Board listen to its members and be guided by the opinion of the majority. We have been taken for a ride over the past 15 years. During one of the most successful eras in our club's unenviable history, we've been forced to wear inferior strips in 2 of the past 3 Grand Finals (ie. hot cross bun in 1997 and the liquid paper away strip this year). Members had no say in whether they wanted these strips to represent the club they love. It's time that we did- it is after all enshrined in our constitution!

[plugger66]

More important issues than a friggin jumper that has changed probably 15 times in over 100 years. As long as it red, black and white that is all that matters for me but hey go ahead but nothing will change and neither it should.

[Ice Wolf]

I just responded to an earlier post regarding away guerneys for 2011 onwards. But I want to open up the matter further. Yes, I am not happy with the 'liquid paper Saints jumper' worn this year and regrettably in this year's Grand Finals. However, it's part of a greater malaise within the club. That is, the St Kilda Board (past and present) is not adhering to the club's constitution that states that 75% member approval is required to alter club icons such as the name, the mascot, colours and guernsey design.

Jumper designs at St Kilda have been plentiful in the past 15 years and there seems to be no indication that this trend will alter in the future. But what does need to alter is that the Board listen to its members and be guided by the opinion of the majority. We have been taken for a ride over the past 15 years. During one of the most successful eras in our club's unenviable history, we've been forced to wear inferior strips in 2 of the past 3 Grand Finals (ie. hot cross bun in 1997 and the liquid paper away strip this year). Members had no say in whether they wanted these strips to represent the club they love. It's time that we did- it is after all enshrined in our constitution!

Heres a simple solution:

Make the Candy Strip Jumper our home jumper (the one with the black trim and white back) and our traditional jumper our Clash, it's worked for Collingwood.

That way we will have a light jumper and a dark jumper, and Collingwood can't complain about the light jumper as it is our home.

The Candy Strip looks great, it includes the colours and stripes and looks like a St Kilda Jumper.

[St Lenny]

I think you need to learn your facts before you write about this. St Kilda chose to wear the Hot Cross Bun jumper for the 97 GF. At the time it was "deemed" lucky, we had worn it for the 96 nite premiership win and of course the success we had in 97.

St Kilda don't actually get a say in what clash gernseys they wear. They put forward to the ALF several proposals and the AFL choose according to the rules, predominately white is the rule these days, wasn't back in 97.

And please, yes everyone loved the candy stripe, but sponsors didn't and it doesn't fit the predominately white rule, no use continually bringing it up.

We all know there is 2 sets of rules in the AFL, one for the "power" clubs and one for everyone else. But what can you do? Upsetting them more like GT did does nothing to help us. St Kilda are working hard to repair damage done by previous bad decisions and more importantly making us a "power" club.

Really the clash gernsey thing is done like a dinner on here, people need to get over it, accept St Kilda are doing their best and if you are not happy with that go to the Annual General Meeting and find out for yourself instead of whinging on here all time.

[ChicagoSaint]

I think you need to learn your facts before you write about this. St Kilda chose to wear the Hot Cross Bun jumper for the 97 GF. At the time it was "deemed" lucky, we had worn it for the 96 nite premiership win and of course the success we had in 97.

St Kilda don't actually get a say in what clash gernseys they wear. They put forward to the ALF several proposals and the AFL choose according to the rules, predominately white is the rule these days, wasn't back in 97.

And please, yes everyone loved the candy stripe, but sponsors didn't and it doesn't fit the predominately white rule, no use continually bringing it up.

We all know there is 2 sets of rules in the AFL, one for the "power" clubs and one for everyone else. But what can you do? Upsetting them more like GT did does nothing to help us. St Kilda are working hard to repair damage done by previous bad decisions and more importantly making us a "power" club.

Really the clash gernsey thing is done like a dinner on here, people need to get over it, accept St Kilda are doing their best and if you are not happy with that go to the Annual General Meeting and find out for yourself instead of whinging on here all time.

awesome post there Lenny spot on champ!

[Kilda]

St Lenny wrote: "I think you need to learn your facts before you write about this. St Kilda chose to wear the Hot Cross Bun jumper for the 97 GF."

Yes, St Lenny, you are correct but the crucial point you have ommitted is that the Board did not consult its members as to whether they wanted the Hot Cross Bun strip for home games in 1997. It was not worn in 1996 H & A season and just imposed upon us without our say for 1997. So too, now, not withstanding the pressures of the AFL, there is no reason why the club cannot come up with strips that has the support of its lifeblood.

[ChicagoSaint]

do you want the board to consult on oranges at half time versus powerade?

[barks4eva]

I just responded to an earlier post regarding away guerneys for 2011 onwards. But I want to open up the matter further. Yes, I am not happy with the 'liquid paper Saints jumper' worn this year and regrettably in this year's Grand Finals. However, it's part of a greater malaise within the club. That is, the St Kilda Board (past and present) is not adhering to the club's constitution that states that 75% member approval is required to alter club icons such as the name, the mascot, colours and guernsey design.

Jumper designs at St Kilda have been plentiful in the past 15 years and there seems to be no indication that this trend will alter in the future. But what does need to alter is that the Board listen to its members and be guided by the opinion of the majority. We have been taken for a ride over the past 15 years. During one of the most successful eras in our club's unenviable history, we've been forced to wear inferior strips in 2 of the past 3 Grand Finals (ie. hot cross bun in 1997 and the liquid paper away strip this year). Members had no say in whether they wanted these strips to represent the club they love. It's time that we did- it is after all enshrined in our constitution!

HERE, HERE!

The boards of this club, BOTH CURRENT and PAST have shown scant disregard to the members and have ushered in some very second rate decisions and it's about time this was brought to a halt!


ANY changes made to OUR JUMPER OR SONG should be decided by a majority vote of the members NOT by a passing whim of a handful of board members!


I brought to the board's attention at the 2008 AGM the possibility of playing Collingwood in a Grand Final in the next few years and that we might be forced to wear a clash jumper in a Grand Final!

Our president said at the 2008 AGM in response to my questions about this issue " We will wear OUR HOME JUMPER IN GRAND FINALS"

Obviously he had no clue whatsoever!

OUR HOME JUMPER, OUR BRAND should be represented on the big stage in a Grand Final that is televised throughout the world and watched by millions, even if we need to change the back of the jumper for a clash!

Market different designs for training jumpers for extra merchandise etc...etc..., BUT FOR ALL TIME OUR AWAY JUMPER SHOULD HAVE OUR HOME JUMPER ON THE FRONT OF THE JUMPER IMHO!

PUT THIS TO A VOTE AND SEE WHAT THE MEMBERS DECIDE!

It's about time board's were made to account to the members and that members have a say in the outcomes!

I questioned Archie about the previous washed out clash jumper design a few years ago from the previous board in an email and after a few exchanges he admitted to me privately that the board had stuffed up and promised me in writing that the members would have a say and vote in the next clash jumper design!

THIS DID NOT HAPPEN!

The new board stuffed up once again and anyway you want to spin it,
St kilda should have had at least it's HOME JUMPER represented in this year's GRAND FINALS that were televised world wide!

Only one way to ensure this happens and that is to deliver a clash jumper that is our home jumper with a white back!

I have no doubt this would also be the option that the majority of members would vote for, given this jumper must be predominantly white/ contain a white back!

If the board cannot see this by now, then let the members decide!

[satchmo]

The boards of this club, BOTH CURRENT and PAST have shown scant disregard to the members

That's not true at all. They have shown plenty of disregard.

[stinger]

More important issues than a friggin jumper .

now now...temper temper.....obviously you are not a professional ...using such language.....my my...


shows how out of touch with reality you are...of course the jumper is important....

[Enrico_Misso]

The jumper is ALL important.

I hate seeing us going out looking like Freo losers.

We are red, white and black.
Not small strip of red and black with a mass of white.

From many angles we don't look like StKilda in our away strip.

And that is W R O N G !!

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

I think you need to learn your facts before you write about this. St Kilda chose to wear the Hot Cross Bun jumper for the 97 GF. At the time it was "deemed" lucky, we had worn it for the 96 nite premiership win and of course the success we had in 97.

St Kilda don't actually get a say in what clash gernseys they wear. They put forward to the ALF several proposals and the AFL choose according to the rules, predominately white is the rule these days, wasn't back in 97.

And please, yes everyone loved the candy stripe, but sponsors didn't and it doesn't fit the predominately white rule, no use continually bringing it up.

We all know there is 2 sets of rules in the AFL, one for the "power" clubs and one for everyone else. But what can you do? Upsetting them more like GT did does nothing to help us. St Kilda are working hard to repair damage done by previous bad decisions and more importantly making us a "power" club.

Really the clash gernsey thing is done like a dinner on here, people need to get over it, accept St Kilda are doing their best and if you are not happy with that go to the Annual General Meeting and find out for yourself instead of whinging on here all time.

Why would the sponsors not like the candy cane jumper? How annoying, most of the members loved it! So you can't see there sponsorship emblems on the jumper or something? What tha? That's a joke!

[St Lenny]

Get a grip kilda, that was 13 years ago anyway. Like I said, go to the AGM, I'm tired of people bringing up the same issues, time and time again........................... boring.....................................................

[tmueller]

According to http://www.footyjumpers.com/

2004 - 2007
White panel attached to the neck covering the bottom of the collar



2008 - 2009
Thinner White panel and revised collar



Did anyone care then?

St. Kilda = Red, White & Black, vertical panels. Or thick stripes (heritage 1987-1914)

You could say the 09/10 clash strip was two thick red and black stripes like our first ever jumper of 1897, plus a big white panel like our old home jumper. That's just one way of looking at it.

As long as it's not a sash, horizontal stripes, a crest, wiggly lines, a V etc. it's an historic representation of a St. Kilda jumper.

If we must wear a clash jumper to make play in a GF easier then so be it, as long as we don't lift the cup in a Collingwood jumper.

I'd rather the club focus it's energy on winning and player development.

I'd like to remember this as a time when we were a premiership contending team, than a team who whinges about the width of the colours on their jumper.

[TriColourDisciple]

Those of you who lack passion for the St kilda jumper and are sick of this issue being brought up, Why respond?

I personally applaud those like B4E, Kilda, etc. who are passionate enough to continually oppose being taken for granted by the board on this issue.

Totally agree that, if we are forced to have an alternate, mainly white jumper, Why can't the front be the same as the home jumper?

Pity some of our 'supporters' are just as watered-down as the the alternate strips are.

[Milan Faletic]

So what would you say to Darrel Baldock and the 1966 Premiership Team when they swapped their jumpers and did the lap of honour with the Premiership Cup in Collingwood jumpers with the exception of Ian Synman?

Did they water down the value of the jumper by swapping?

It's what is in the jumper that counts. Teams all over the world have away strips. I find nothing wrong with the jumpers worn this year in the GFs. They were red, white and black. How did we go in 2009 with the traditional jumper? And 1971? And 1965? And do you even know the design of the 1913 jumper?

[avid]

Hear Hear!
It means A LOT to me.
It's OK if you don't care, but I'm sick of people who don't care saying we shouldn't care!
Blind people probably don't care much about the jumper either.

[oakleighboy]

Any jumper without 23 on it suits me.

[avid]

I was saying Hear Hear to TriColourDisciple, not Faletic who slipped in while I was composing my masterpiece.

As far as the 1966 colours go, I have a friend who, as a child, watched St Kilda win the GF, and then barracked for Collingwood the rest of his life because he thought they were the winning colours!!
It matters! It's imprinted! It's deep in the psyche!!
What's your point here????

[Enrico_Misso]

Agree avid.
Some of our recent "clash" jumpers have been really lame.

Why?
Because we just don't look like StKilda in them.

The one we wore in the GF was a bare pass.
Nowhere near enough red in it for my liking.

[kalsaint]

Get a grip kilda, that was 13 years ago anyway. Like I said, go to the AGM, I'm tired of people bringing up the same issues, time and time again........................... boring.....................................................

The answer is simple. DONT RESPOND. Its aforum afterall and all are entitled to theie point of view. If you dont like it, dont respond. Simple.Move on.

[kalsaint]

So what would you say to Darrel Baldock and the 1966 Premiership Team when they swapped their jumpers and did the lap of honour with the Premiership Cup in Collingwood jumpers with the exception of Ian Synman?

Did they water down the value of the jumper by swapping?

It's what is in the jumper that counts. Teams all over the world have away strips. I find nothing wrong with the jumpers worn this year in the GFs. They were red, white and black. How did we go in 2009 with the traditional jumper? And 1971? And 1965? And do you even know the design of the 1913 jumper?

Good grief this was quite customery at the time. They certainly didnt play in it.

[tmueller]

I am in no way lacking passion for the St. Kilda jumper. Fair enough there are people who believe that the only legitimate strip would be the current home jumper, as they've been around longer than I have.

However, I still think that the clash jumper of the last two seasons with the big white panel is better by leaps and bounds than the hot cross buns, yellow hot cross buns or the white singlet with the old shield. It is fundamentally the same with red, white and black panels. I'm happy it was this one rather than any of the aforementioned. Maybe the board got it wrong, but it wasn't too wrong.

If it is true that we can have the traditional front with a white back then I will sign every petition and form that you throw at me to have it that way. The members who have access to members of the board or the time and means to get to the AGM (I live in Sydney, so no chance) need to find a way to get everyone else on board. There is no point arguing with everyone that disagrees, just tell them you need their name and signature to make the members who really really really have their heart in this a chance at getting what they want.

[Kilda]

TMueller, I appreciate your two posts on this issue.

Re your first post, I guess the differences between the two guernseys you've shown is so subtle that most of us would not have detected it, whereas others mentioned here have been oh so in your face. But your example merely strengthens the argument - that the strip now seems to be constantly changing. And I'm not against change per se, but for heavens sake let the pulse of the club- the supporters- have some meaningful say in it.

Re your second post, I fully intend to be present at the AGM (I'm in Melbourne) to raise this matter. And I will share the outcome (whatever it is) afterwards at this forum.

Finally, some posts correctly point out that the club's strip has had various incarnations over the long journey...thin tri-coloured vertical strips, large vertical bands of red, white and black, a tri-coloured strip of red, yellow and black and also in the V shape a la Sth Melbourne. However, I don't think I'm alone when I say that the guernsey has been pretty stable since 1933 when the crest was added. Essentially, the vertical tricolours with the crest has been the strip for the past 77 years. So all of us, regardless of our age, have grown up with it. Sometimes, tradition is worth preserving even in the face of rampant commercialisation and 'progress'.

[tmueller]

Thanks for your response Kilda.

I can agree that there is really only one strip that can be called our traditional jumper and most members would too.

If I could suggest thought that if you do go to the AGM to voice these concerns and represent members who also feel cheated that you take some ammunition as well, eg. a petition, letters. It appears barks4eva tried to go it alone and he was ignored in 2008.

Given that there are 41,163 members as of 21/9/10, the required 75% for a change is 38,872. That means if at least 10,290 oppose a change it cannot be done according to the constitution of the club. There are 3,951 registered users on saintsaitional.com, 850 on facebook group saints footy (possibly double ups), plus family and friends that are easily contactable. It should be possible to get 5,000 signatures if you try. If you want I'll help (not that I'm of influence in these, or any other parts).

Here is a draft I made for you
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/248391 ... tition.pdf

If they all get sent to the one address and then taken to the AGM at once then it should have a nice punch.
If the board runs the club as a business then appealing to its revenue source should have some effect.