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Im so alarmed by this I think it deserves its own post.
Saints have been very quiet at trade week this year and this has been put down to salary cap pressures.
However im deeply concerned about our lack of resources in this area. Its not the coaches fault or responsibility to be doing everything.
Saints recruiting/List Mgt budget 2009 (13th in AFL).
Staff involved in trade week:
Eastern wrote:
John Peake is our National Recruiting Manager
John Beveridge is our Recruiting Consultant (semi-retired)
Greg Hutchison is our General Manager-Football Operations
Matthew Drain WAS our General Manager-List Management (resigned 2 weeks ago) !!
Con Gorozidis wrote:Im so alarmed by this I think it deserves its own post.
Saints have been very quiet at trade week this year and this has been put down to salary cap pressures.
However im deeply concerned about our lack of resources in this area. Its not the coaches fault or responsibility to be doing everything.
Saints recruiting/List Mgt budget 2009 (13th in AFL).
Staff involved in trade week:
Eastern wrote:
John Peake is our National Recruiting Manager
John Beveridge is our Recruiting Consultant (semi-retired)
Greg Hutchison is our General Manager-Football Operations
Matthew Drain WAS our General Manager-List Management (resigned 2 weeks ago) !!
[/quote]
It sounds like the club is content with going to the draft & getting more kids in.
If that is the case then I'm happy because that is where recruiters really earn their money.
Last year Ross & Drain made the call that Lovett was more valuable than our 1st round pick & that the it was a better chance that Jesse Smith would recover & play good senior footy than whoever was still available at pick #65?.
The year before Peake made what looks like some excellent decisions by taking Lynch, Heyne, Stanley and Al Smith.
The club is actually better resourced recruiting wise than it has ever been. We have a number more scouts interstate the Bevo ever had.
Con Gorozidis wrote:Im so alarmed by this I think it deserves its own post.
Saints have been very quiet at trade week this year and this has been put down to salary cap pressures.
However im deeply concerned about our lack of resources in this area. Its not the coaches fault or responsibility to be doing everything.
Saints recruiting/List Mgt budget 2009 (13th in AFL).
Staff involved in trade week:
Eastern wrote:
John Peake is our National Recruiting Manager
John Beveridge is our Recruiting Consultant (semi-retired)
Greg Hutchison is our General Manager-Football Operations
Matthew Drain WAS our General Manager-List Management (resigned 2 weeks ago) !!
It sounds like the club is content with going to the draft & getting more kids in.
If that is the case then I'm happy because that is where recruiters really earn their money.
Last year Ross & Drain made the call that Lovett was more valuable than our 1st round pick & that the it was a better chance that Jesse Smith would recover & play good senior footy than whoever was still available at pick #65?.
The year before Peake made what looks like some excellent decisions by taking Lynch, Heyne, Stanley and Al Smith.
The club is actually better resourced recruiting wise than it has ever been. We have a number more scouts interstate the Bevo ever had.
Recruiting isn't just about trades.
i know its just not about trades. but u see our overall recruiting budget was the 4th lowest in the afl in 2009. Has this changed in 2010?
I also dont buy club spin to explain away bad decisions. Remember last year we were told - "hey its ok we gave ball away for nothing and our first rounder for lovett cos tommy walsh is really a first rounder"
ummm what? that defies logic.
so the line" we are content to go for kids" doesnt fill me with confidence.
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Mon 11 Oct 2010 12:58pm, edited 3 times in total.
Con, you & I can disagree with the Lovett situation. I thought it was a fantastic get at the time & despite what some Nostradamus like people say, what happened was something so far from what the club thought was possible it isn't funny. They maybe thought he'd get out on the gas, miss a session, small fry stuff that could be limited by a strong leadership group.
What (allegedly) happened has never happened before at an AFL club to the extent where teammates have flat refused to be associated with a player.
Walsh is ahead of where Jimmy Stynes was at the same time of their 'AFL' experience. If Tommy turns out half as good as Jimmy, that first round selection call is not as far fetched as it sounds now.
All of this recruiting in hindsight is frustrating to read. IF we'd taken Judd instead of Ball then we wouldn't have BJ for a start. IF we'd not taken the Clarke Brothers then we may not have got Same Fisher... it's just not simply 'we should have chosen player X & then look at the team we would have'.
That's what I was referencing the other day when I asked how many other clubs have their CEO at trade week. It had nothing to do with Nettlefold personally - just highlighting that we are the only club without a list manager. The coach and FC Manager have just come off a 5 week finals campaign and then front up with the CEO to determine what players to trade in / out! Very under resourced if you ask me. McKinley would have suited us given than Kossi is battling. And so would have Sherman.
Bit frustrating to us suipporters how this year when it is probably the first time ever that young players could be traded for, via Gold Coast, and it is the only year we have'nt been active. However I am pleased we are not getting more second hand players onto the list.
Animal Enclosure wrote:Con, you & I can disagree with the Lovett situation. I thought it was a fantastic get at the time & despite what some Nostradamus like people say, what happened was something so far from what the club thought was possible it isn't funny. They maybe thought he'd get out on the gas, miss a session, small fry stuff that could be limited by a strong leadership group.
What (allegedly) happened has never happened before at an AFL club to the extent where teammates have flat refused to be associated with a player.
Walsh is ahead of where Jimmy Stynes was at the same time of their 'AFL' experience. If Tommy turns out half as good as Jimmy, that first round selection call is not as far fetched as it sounds now.
All of this recruiting in hindsight is frustrating to read. IF we'd taken Judd instead of Ball then we wouldn't have BJ for a start. IF we'd not taken the Clarke Brothers then we may not have got Same Fisher... it's just not simply 'we should have chosen player X & then look at the team we would have'.
i was also very pumped about lovett at the time. so that was noones fault and was unforseeable. but we probably could have used 30 on him (from ball trade) and got a kid at 17. noone else was going for lovett before 30.
anyway im not trying to go into individual trades from the past which is a waste of everyones time. im just saying. right here right now in 2010/11 the saints DO NOT have the best recruiting/list management staff in the afl. we arent even in the top 10. So while recruiting is always hit and miss and there is always uncertainty. Im saying we arent maximising our chances in a probablity sense.
If u prefer i can be positive and say :
"st kilda have the most professional and extensive recruitment staff in the afl and will have a higher chance than most of getting recruitment right"
i could say that. but itd be a lie. if u prefer to wear rose tinted glasses and believe in fairies thats ok.
Bono wrote:That's what I was referencing the other day when I asked how many other clubs have their CEO at trade week. It had nothing to do with Nettlefold personally - just highlighting that we are the only club without a list manager. The coach and FC Manager have just come off a 5 week finals campaign and then front up with the CEO to determine what players to trade in / out! Very under resourced if you ask me. McKinley would have suited us given than Kossi is battling. And so would have Sherman.
Thanks for the support Bono. I just wanted to make the general point that we are under-resourced in this area. I dont want/need to go into details of individual trades. Bit its FACT that we are under-resourced in this facet. Its undeniable. There is raw data + factual evidence to confirm this.
In many ways I'm glad we didn't have a knee jerk reaction and try and trade our way to a premiership.
Our big trade last year was a disaster in our blinkered reaction that we needed speed in the midfield.
Mind you, no one would have seen what happened happen, but the guy did have a history of drinking, we just hoped he might decide that this was his last chance and ease off the booze a bit.
It will be interesting who they target in the draft, if they know of some unknown player running around in the suburban leagues like another Gwilt or Jason Cripps (before he got hurt).
As much as losing the 2nd GF and the frustration of friggin luck not letting the ball bounce our way in the first GF, I am very much curious to see how they approach the pre season next year and who they experiment with.
I am still a big believer in trying Stanley as a wingman or HFF, not key position yet, just believe that if he fired in either of those positions he would be nearly impossible to match up on.
Are we going to get a list manager to replace Drain? A pretty strategic appointment and one I believe is needed to get some direction for the future.
Or do others believe the List Managers position is over rated and can be done by existing staff .......
