As stupid as this sounds...
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
As stupid as this sounds...
I've heard from an extremely reliable source that Bachar Houli would be reluctant to ever pull on a St.kilda jumper due to the fact the cross is part of our emblem. Now this might seem stupid but I myself am Muslim and my Dad ( very religious ) get's pretty distressed whenever I'm wearing my Saints jumper so I know where he is coming from.. Even though I see it as a non issue.
Hypothetically, If he ever got traded to the club what would happen? Thoughts?
Hypothetically, If he ever got traded to the club what would happen? Thoughts?
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Sun 04 Dec 2005 9:56pm
- Has thanked: 37 times
- Been thanked: 19 times
It makes sense to me, Calais. The only other example I can think of is back during World War 1 when St Kilda F C felt so uncomfortable about having colours that were the same as the German national flag, that they changed the colours to red, yellow and black in line with our then ally, Belgium.
Associations are powerful for each and everyone of us. So I can see why devout Moslems would feel uneasy about the black cross.
Associations are powerful for each and everyone of us. So I can see why devout Moslems would feel uneasy about the black cross.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
- Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6043
- Joined: Mon 21 May 2007 5:31pm
- Location: Currumbin, Quoinslairnd
that is quite funny.Enrico_Misso wrote:We could have a red, white and black one and call it a Nathan.Teflon wrote:Hard to run in a Burka.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
yes and all the Jews who have played for us were distressed by the cross as well
What a load of bollocks. If the dips.hit is that much of a fanatic, we dont want the clown at the club.
he can go and practice his idiotic fairytales at some other place.
Anyway as slow as a wet week, and crap with the ball. We've already got plenty of those types.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
What a load of bollocks. If the dips.hit is that much of a fanatic, we dont want the clown at the club.
he can go and practice his idiotic fairytales at some other place.
Anyway as slow as a wet week, and crap with the ball. We've already got plenty of those types.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
- Furphy
- Club Player
- Posts: 781
- Joined: Tue 02 Aug 2005 2:48pm
- Location: Berwick
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 19 times
My sentiments exactly!joffaboy wrote:yes and all the Jews who have played for us were distressed by the cross as well![]()
What a load of bollocks. If the dips.hit is that much of a fanatic, we dont want the clown at the club.
he can go and practice his idiotic fairytales at some other place.
Anyway as slow as a wet week, and crap with the ball. We've already got plenty of those types.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 9:11pm
- Location: Behind the goal, South Road end
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 38 times
Best to think of the cross as just a design.
It might interest him to know that no person named Kilda actually existed.
One version of the origin of the name has it that it is derived from the Norse "sunt kelda" (sweet wellwater). There are various other explanations but general agreement that there is no such saint.
And it's true that we have a large Jewish following, and even a Jewish premiership player, so if it's good enough for them....
What's more, at a recent home and away game I was sitting close to a group of young people in Saints gear who, from the girls' headscarves, were very obviously Muslim.
It might interest him to know that no person named Kilda actually existed.
One version of the origin of the name has it that it is derived from the Norse "sunt kelda" (sweet wellwater). There are various other explanations but general agreement that there is no such saint.
And it's true that we have a large Jewish following, and even a Jewish premiership player, so if it's good enough for them....
What's more, at a recent home and away game I was sitting close to a group of young people in Saints gear who, from the girls' headscarves, were very obviously Muslim.
We do have a large Jewish following, and even back in the 90s when we had that jumper with the large cross across the front, no one seemed to be bothered too much.Superboot wrote:Best to think of the cross as just a design.
It might interest him to know that no person named Kilda actually existed.
One version of the origin of the name has it that it is derived from the Norse "sunt kelda" (sweet wellwater). There are various other explanations but general agreement that there is no such saint.
And it's true that we have a large Jewish following, and even a Jewish premiership player, so if it's good enough for them....
What's more, at a recent home and away game I was sitting close to a group of young people in Saints gear who, from the girls' headscarves, were very obviously Muslim.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
The saints cross was designed as a christian cross symbol, but never used in a religious sense.
It was simply picked up on because of the nickname "saints". St kilda is named after a ship that anchored off st kilda beach for a time in the 19th century. Danish I think and have heard the story of sweet water too.
It was as far as I know meant as an ironic name the Saints as we were not so angelic. Christians as such probably have a lot more to be pissed about than any other group in society about our symbolism as it is commercialising a sacred symbol. It plays it as something that can be reproduced in design with no relevance to it original meaning.
A bit like if a team in another sport had the name the Sheiks or something similar and used the crescent moon in their design where it had a slight feel of ridiculing it's original meaning.
I would probably point that out to him so he could feel comfortable with the design and not stress about it. Not sure he is the right fit though for us, a bit like trading Armo for Armo.
It was simply picked up on because of the nickname "saints". St kilda is named after a ship that anchored off st kilda beach for a time in the 19th century. Danish I think and have heard the story of sweet water too.
It was as far as I know meant as an ironic name the Saints as we were not so angelic. Christians as such probably have a lot more to be pissed about than any other group in society about our symbolism as it is commercialising a sacred symbol. It plays it as something that can be reproduced in design with no relevance to it original meaning.
A bit like if a team in another sport had the name the Sheiks or something similar and used the crescent moon in their design where it had a slight feel of ridiculing it's original meaning.
I would probably point that out to him so he could feel comfortable with the design and not stress about it. Not sure he is the right fit though for us, a bit like trading Armo for Armo.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12421
- Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 296 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
On the Jewish thing, the Ajax footy club in my parts who are the local Jewish team play in Saints colours. I think a lot of kids play in our colours and have jumped on through that.
Anyway the god of Islam, Judaism and Christians is one and the same, and Jesus is rated as a minor prophet in Islam, if my memory serves me right.
Anyway the god of Islam, Judaism and Christians is one and the same, and Jesus is rated as a minor prophet in Islam, if my memory serves me right.
- borderbarry
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6676
- Joined: Mon 19 Apr 2004 11:22pm
- Location: Wodonga
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
Re: As stupid as this sounds...
pretty interesting insight calais. not something that would have crossed my mind (excuse the pun) as i was thiking houli is just the type of player we need (pacy midfielder with nice kicking skills and the occassional goal).Calais wrote:I've heard from an extremely reliable source that Bachar Houli would be reluctant to ever pull on a St.kilda jumper due to the fact the cross is part of our emblem. Now this might seem stupid but I myself am Muslim and my Dad ( very religious ) get's pretty distressed whenever I'm wearing my Saints jumper so I know where he is coming from.. Even though I see it as a non issue.
Hypothetically, If he ever got traded to the club what would happen? Thoughts?
thanks for sharing.
shame that young people still feel/think this way in 2010.
- degruch
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8948
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
- Location: Croydonia
- Has thanked: 146 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Hmmm...I'd like to hear that from Bachar myself, but it sounds like a throw away comment to me, possibly someone else's throw away comment too. If he ever got traded, he'd have to suck it up...but maybe the club would be sensitive enough not to revert back to our old 'Crusader' away jumper of the mid-to-late 1990's.
In the end, religion is a code for living, if you want to let it dictate your life and it helps you be a better person, that's great. But expecting other people (or sporting clubs) to jump through hoops to fit your chosen belief is pushing it a little. Religion has no place in sport, so relax.
In the end, religion is a code for living, if you want to let it dictate your life and it helps you be a better person, that's great. But expecting other people (or sporting clubs) to jump through hoops to fit your chosen belief is pushing it a little. Religion has no place in sport, so relax.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
mordy bromberg. saints player and federal court charge. although we shouldnt bring this up as it might make bachar dislike us even moreborderbarry wrote:Just as a point of interest, our first premiership ever, 3rds, was captained by the same Ian Synman, he of Jewish faith. And several members of that team were in the '66 Premiership side. See, it does pay to start with young ones instead of rejects.
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
i think our large jewish following is because of the geographic location (st kilda) is near the jewish area. i dont think there is any significance with the colours. I assume ajax adopted saints colours just because of the geographical connection (large jewish community centred in caulfield).Superboot wrote:Best to think of the cross as just a design.
It might interest him to know that no person named Kilda actually existed.
One version of the origin of the name has it that it is derived from the Norse "sunt kelda" (sweet wellwater). There are various other explanations but general agreement that there is no such saint.
And it's true that we have a large Jewish following, and even a Jewish premiership player, so if it's good enough for them....
What's more, at a recent home and away game I was sitting close to a group of young people in Saints gear who, from the girls' headscarves, were very obviously Muslim.
- bozza1980
- Club Player
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Thu 27 Jan 2005 3:42pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
I trust you, doesn't make it seem less odd.Calais wrote:I myself know this mate, but the family he comes from is devout and much more religious and they see it otherwise..Trust me loldcstkfc wrote:St Kilda's cross has no religious signficance. It's just a pattern.
Everyone is entitled to believe what they like, but being wary of a cross designed emblem with no religious significance, to my very small mind, sounds like something you read in a vampire story not as thoughts of a person living in the 21st century.
Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friends.
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Well if there's even a modicum of truth in it I wouldn't touch him with one of those really big barge poles.bozza1980 wrote:I trust you, doesn't make it seem less odd.Calais wrote:I myself know this mate, but the family he comes from is devout and much more religious and they see it otherwise..Trust me loldcstkfc wrote:St Kilda's cross has no religious signficance. It's just a pattern.
Everyone is entitled to believe what they like, but being wary of a cross designed emblem with no religious significance, to my very small mind, sounds like something you read in a vampire story not as thoughts of a person living in the 21st century.
It's bound to lead to issues down the track and it's not like he's a gun. Just another fringe player who happens to play well against us now and then. If I recall, that’s what lead to us recruit Michael Frost all those years ago (it also lead us to Milne although that only cost us a rookie pick
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Anyway it seems he's keen to go to the Tiges.
I say let Richmond, with their muslim friendly guernseys, have the lad.
Con Gorozidis wrote:i think our large jewish following is because of the geographic location (st kilda) is near the jewish area. i dont think there is any significance with the colours. I assume ajax adopted saints colours just because of the geographical connection (large jewish community centred in caulfield).Superboot wrote:Best to think of the cross as just a design.
It might interest him to know that no person named Kilda actually existed.
One version of the origin of the name has it that it is derived from the Norse "sunt kelda" (sweet wellwater). There are various other explanations but general agreement that there is no such saint.
And it's true that we have a large Jewish following, and even a Jewish premiership player, so if it's good enough for them....
What's more, at a recent home and away game I was sitting close to a group of young people in Saints gear who, from the girls' headscarves, were very obviously Muslim.
The vast majority of Jews support Carlton because that is where all the Jews lived coming to Australia after World War II.
Then many Jews lived in the Elwood area, so we picked up a lot of supporters through that.
Collingwood also have a strong following... not sure why.
And Melbourne too, as demonstrated through Gutnick's presidency.
So I don't the AJAX colours were chosen because of St Kilda.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
if u check the ABS (and other sources) you will find that caulfield/east st kilda is the highest jewish population in melbourne. by some way.FQF wrote:Con Gorozidis wrote:i think our large jewish following is because of the geographic location (st kilda) is near the jewish area. i dont think there is any significance with the colours. I assume ajax adopted saints colours just because of the geographical connection (large jewish community centred in caulfield).Superboot wrote:Best to think of the cross as just a design.
It might interest him to know that no person named Kilda actually existed.
One version of the origin of the name has it that it is derived from the Norse "sunt kelda" (sweet wellwater). There are various other explanations but general agreement that there is no such saint.
And it's true that we have a large Jewish following, and even a Jewish premiership player, so if it's good enough for them....
What's more, at a recent home and away game I was sitting close to a group of young people in Saints gear who, from the girls' headscarves, were very obviously Muslim.
The vast majority of Jews support Carlton because that is where all the Jews lived coming to Australia after World War II.
Then many Jews lived in the Elwood area, so we picked up a lot of supporters through that.
Collingwood also have a strong following... not sure why.
And Melbourne too, as demonstrated through Gutnick's presidency.
So I don't the AJAX colours were chosen because of St Kilda.
next is doncaster.
That is more of a recent development over the last 30 years.Con Gorozidis wrote: if u check the ABS (and other sources) you will find that caulfield/east st kilda is the highest jewish population in melbourne. by some way.
next is doncaster.
And for most of us, we support our team because our parent/s did/do.
So although Jews live in Caulfield now, the alliances were created quite some time ago.