OK I'm going to get grumpy now.

[spert]

A few days down the track, totally deflated after the GF. I've seen these losses: the '71 GF as young fella, the '97, and 09 and two in 10. The club has let its supporters down badly for a number of years. The last three GF appearances especially have been totally unacceptable and makes you wonder what the approach is by players and the coach who had so much opportunity in front of them. GFs are about winning -a hundred points or one..doesn't matter and other than that, forget it. Too much back slapping and warm fuzziness about getting to a GF and in reality the crap served up by the club last Saturday and for the first half of the previous GF is unbelievable. We have clearly over-rated players who have been at the club for a few years now and who can't perform at the highest level on the day that counts the most in a football club's history. We had probably three players who stood out above the others in the last two GFs and the rest who played like a bunch of school kids. Ross Lyon has coached the team to be so defensive, that it was impossible to break out and create attacking football against a team who do just that. Defence is fine, but in our game, you also need to kick a winning score, and chipping the footy around achieves nothing- very much like the Geelong teams of the late '80s..all that effort, into the finals, a champion in Ablett Snr in the forward line and no premiership to show for it.
I think members need to write to Mr Westaway and start to demand a premiership instead of all being very happy that we got this far and got a draw and could of won rubbish. Get stuck into the leadership of this club and demand it, demand a premiership!

[plugger66]

That will work for sure. Demanding premierships. When was that a criteria for winning one. We have supporters have no right to demand. We can have a say in the way the club is run and at the moment that is excellent.

[sainter27]

In essence, there is a fair bit to agree with here. Ross has made it clear that we exist as a Football Club for one simple reason and that is whay our attrition rate among coaches and assistant staff is brutal.

Firstly, we cannot go to the well again with this group, there needs to be between 5-8 changes to next years' best side. Secondly, some of our considered safe top 10 need to be put through the ringer. A possible trade of Gram is perfect. We are so close to a premiership it is not just good enough to be there- we need one and the effort on Sat was disgraceful. We can't let anyone become comfortable. All I heard about last week was how much extra money the players wanted 'there's no show without punch'. Sure they deserve the money- just like we deserve/expect a premiership. Many of us dipped our hands in our pockets for 2 grand-finals and I didn't see one complaint on this site about our financial expenses.

My view is that a fundamental shift will occur in terms of defensive forwards. Ross has been huge on this (defence in general) since arriving at the club. WE only need to look at McQualters' year last year and how much that was valued- because he played almost every game this year when he could barely touch it, let alone kick goals. The same with Eddy.

This defensive penchants side-effect is that most of our 'top-liners' play in defence. Fisher, Goddard, Gilbert, Gwilt and to a lesser extent Gram. Defensive mindset was well ingrained in them before Lyon really got a hold of them. Their defence is second to not many, and their attack has stood us in good stead for 3 years. But you don't win games in the back-half. Lyon has sacrificed too much 'class' or 'potential class' in the front-half to rely on Roo, Shneids, Milne, to finish the work. Relying on Kosi as a structure player and Eddy and McQualter to concentrate on tackle counts.

The problem is McQualter and Eddy do not kick any goals- and that is what forwards are suppossed to be about. Forget tackling pressure, what you need is your classiest players in the forward end. So, the responsiblity during trade-week, drafting, and the senior team next year needs to be clear.

1. Eddy and McQualter can no longer be used as forwards (or perhaps anywhere)
Bring in classy trades or go elsewhere to get specific youngsters
2. It is imperative that these 4 all playe Rd1.
Armitage, Miles, Steven, Stanley. Walsh 50-50, hopefully ready

This is an off-season that is as important as any in this club's history. And we will be strong. I just hope we are strong enough. Because if not, Grand Finals are going to be a thing of the past.

[Statsman]

I think members need to write to Mr Westaway and start to demand a premiership instead of all being very happy that we got this far and got a draw and could of won rubbish. Get stuck into the leadership of this club and demand it, demand a premiership!

If only we'd written letters after the 2009 GF loss to Geelong. Surely, on the back of those letters, we'd have beaten Collingwood to win the 2010 GF.

You can't simply demand a premiership, it has to be earned. I am sure the club is doing everything in their power to earn that premiership. They don't need a handful of irate letters to remind them of what AFL football is all about.

[starsign]

Spert you are a drip under pressure !!

Stupid post !!

[IluvHarvey]

If only we'd written letters after the 2009 GF loss to Geelong. Surely, on the back of those letters, we'd have beaten Collingwood to win the 2010 GF.

Twice!!

[saintspremiers]

That will work for sure. Demanding premierships. When was that a criteria for winning one. We have supporters have no right to demand. We can have a say in the way the club is run and at the moment that is excellent.

apart from our recruiting/trading which has been largely shiit for the past few years.

[derby Street]

I reckon Greg Westaway and all at the club have a fair idea all Saints supporters want a premiership - I suspect the players do as well. Perhaps I am too trusting but I believe they will all busting their guts to get us to another G.F. Despite what many think I reckon our club is in pretty good shape. I await for all the negative nellies to come back with everything we are doing wrong !!!!!

[saintnick12]

Agree. Pretty sure they don't need us to tell them we want one.
Pretty sure they all want one to.
Ross is forever saying how we play for the supporters etc.
They didn't lose on the weekend just to annoy and disappoint us all.
Though you would think so based on some of the posts I've read this week.

[The Sainter]

Are some people fools? This is the best summary I have read of what ails the club since the GF. He is right on the mark, anyone can tackle, it takes very little football skill but the 2 he mentioned in Mcqualter and Eddy never seem to get their hands on the ball. He is right about our back line too, a classy player like Fisher has now become so defensive with his kicks sideways and backwards when a few years ago he was a top attacking back man. Blake is another one who now also never seems to want to move the ball quickly on towards the forwards.
Time Ross took his head out of the sand, stop playing his favorites like Mcqualter, Eddy and Baker like the way he has plus also Dawson all year when his form up to the finals was second rate. I believe not one of those 4 just mentioned would have got a game with any of the other finals teams.
I'm a Collingwood hater but they quickly dropped players who were performing badly unlike us who kept selecting them.
Alas I'm now 73 but reckon i was somehow fitter than Gram and Baker were when they ran out on Saturday.

[aussierules0k]

[derby Street]

"It's really about creating another opportunity to be great." We've lost 9 out of our last 49 games, 4 games by less than a goal." Ross Lyon - 23/9/10

Terrible, pathetic stats... just not good enough... I'm sending in my resignation.

16 clubs think their team "deserves" to win a flag over the others.
The new odds of 17-1 are that most footy fans will be very lucky to see 1 flag in 20 years and many others will never see one.

What fans/supporters need to ask themselves is... do I enjoy going each week, or am I only in it for the bragging rights? ... ala a flag.

So I repeat...

"It's really about creating another opportunity to be great." We've lost 9 out of our last 49 games, 4 games by less than a goal." Ross Lyon - 23/9/10

and add... this team is motoring along very nicely.

And gee... if we're really lucky and keep our noses to the grind stone, we might just snag a flag in 2011. Fingers crossed.

That's the spirit !!

[GrumpyOne]

OK I'm going to get grumpy now.

Oh s***..... what have I done now?

[Ghost Like]

Thank God I saved those letters to the Club in Word, I'll just go back in and change the words "Runner Up" to "Premier". All should be good now, rest easy.

The Club is in good hands, the best hands in my time following it. Save for a touch of luck (a bounce) we would have beaten the best team in 2010 for the flag. Similar story in 2009, a spoil that bounces to the left rather than the right and it could have been so different. Poor kicking cost us dearly, the game should have been over at 3 quarter time.

Ross and his staff got the boys back there. I have the utmost belief that he'll assess his own year as one with alot of improvement. He'll review it, the GF and other teams, make the call on some players, trade & draft for our best interests and put the boys through a big pre-season, developing a game plan to beat the 2010 flavour (Collingwood). Let's face it we drew with the best team who were in white hot form, then succumbed the way the other two top four teams did.

We are not the only team that will be striving to improve, the difference between us and them is that we will improve!

[Mr Magic]

Are some people fools? This is the best summary I have read of what ails the club since the GF. He is right on the mark, anyone can tackle, it takes very little football skill but the 2 he mentioned in Mcqualter and Eddy never seem to get their hands on the ball. He is right about our back line too, a classy player like Fisher has now become so defensive with his kicks sideways and backwards when a few years ago he was a top attacking back man. Blake is another one who now also never seems to want to move the ball quickly on towards the forwards.
Time Ross took his head out of the sand, stop playing his favorites like Mcqualter, Eddy and Baker like the way he has plus also Dawson all year when his form up to the finals was second rate. I believe not one of those 4 just mentioned would have got a game with any of the other finals teams.
I'm a Collingwood hater but they quickly dropped players who were performing badly unlike us who kept selecting them.
Alas I'm now 73 but reckon i was somehow fitter than Gram and Baker were when they ran out on Saturday.

In deference to your age I won't tell you what I really think about your post.
Suffice to say I don't agree with your perspective.

[Kilda]

Totally agree with you sainter 27. McQualter is the luckiest player to consistently get chosen: he's indecisive, makes too many unforced errors, is an inaccurate kick at goal (that's on those rare occasions he actually gets a shot a goal), and simply never stamps himself upon a game. Tackling is his forte but it is insuffiicient to warrant selection. In this day and age, almost every player is expected to be able to lay tackles.

I too agree that our defence has become too stagnant. Fisher is a classic case in point. I used to love his dash from HB but nowadays his role is more retaining possession by sharing with his backline teammates. The backline now (with the exception of Gilbert at times) is so dour choosing to chip the ball around that it's become not only unattractive to watch but stifles the team's ability to score. How many times this year did the team struggle to kick goals in a game? 5 against Adelaide in Rd 22, four against the Bulldogs with only a handful of mins left on the clock, 6 against Port early on in the season.

Classic case in point was last Saturday where Collingwood seemed to effortlessly get the ball out of their defensive 50 from the kick in whilst we resorted to our usual 15-20 metre chipping that played into Collingwood's hands. How many times this year did we watch St Kilda's backline take the ball from one HB flank to the other and then, unable to proceed, retreat back to whence it began! Ugly, frustrating and ineffective footy. No wonder we struggled to kick goals because we seem content to play keepings off in the back half.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Maybe a better approach would be to write to Greg Westaway demanding a more attacking approach to our game plan, rather than stating the bleeding obvious "We demand a premiership"...

[spert]

Spert you are a drip under pressure !!

Stupid post !!

You must be one of the poor sods who used to jump around happy in the '80s at the social club when we got flogged week after week as if it would all be alright tomorrow. If you're not angry with the club after last weekend, maybe take up knitting. Personally I would rather see us win a flag.

[ralphsmith]

We were two bounces of the ball from 2 flags.

[ralphsmith]

But yes i agree on Mcqualter.

He was great in 2009, took a big step backwards in 2010.

[Animal Enclosure]

Maybe a better approach would be to write to Greg Westaway demanding a more attacking approach to our game plan, rather than stating the bleeding obvious "We demand a premiership"...

I think people are confusing playing attacking footy with what is the best way to play the Filth. The Dogs and then Cats both ran at Collingwood & tried to beat them with handball and quick ball movement out of defence. It didn't work. Collingwood's 'Rommel' movement (or whatever Malthouse calls it) closes down space so quickly that handballs get intercepted or those receiving it get tackled.

Holding onto possession through short kicks & then releasing someone behind their zone was the key to get into getting the ball into F50 reasonably quickly. Our problem was that outside of BJ we don't have blokes that can kick accurately over 50m to find that player out the back & on the occasion that they did get it, the kick into F50 was deplorable.

All of those attacking the game plan should have a look at the players at Lyon's disposal. We just do not have the linebreaking speed players that can also deliver the ball well enough to play an all out attacking game. Especially when Gram, Dal and Monty looked unfit.

That is why he took the gamble on Lovett and Peake, neither which worked out.

IMO the backline & midfield is in pretty good nick but the forward line loses it's structure too often and too easily. This is primarily because they get sucked up the ground into our defensive zone but a number of our forwards (Kosi, Eddy, McQualter) do not have the explosive leg speed to get back in time to context a long, pressured kick into F50.

IF we had a player like a Lewis Jetta or even a McCaffer type, then this problem would be minimised.

Hopefully Jack Steven, Rhys Stanley and Nick Heyne can assert themselves as senior players in 2011 and help in this regard.

[gringo]

I don't know if forcing the club to make quick decisions under pressure has ever been good for us. I think we need to trust that our systems are in place to review and reload in a position to realistically achieve a GF.

[spert]

Anyway, if you read between my lines, I really want us all to keep the pressure on the club as members and supporters..we have had decades of "close enough is good enough" around the club and we need to turn it around while we have some glimmer of hope. Regardless of a draw, or a bounce from winning, or a great winning record for a couple of years, the premiership count is still 1.

[saint vince]

Totally agree with you sainter 27. McQualter is the luckiest player to consistently get chosen: he's indecisive, makes too many unforced errors, is an inaccurate kick at goal (that's on those rare occasions he actually gets a shot a goal), and simply never stamps himself upon a game. Tackling is his forte but it is insuffiicient to warrant selection. In this day and age, almost every player is expected to be able to lay tackles.

I too agree that our defence has become too stagnant. Fisher is a classic case in point. I used to love his dash from HB but nowadays his role is more retaining possession by sharing with his backline teammates. The backline now (with the exception of Gilbert at times) is so dour choosing to chip the ball around that it's become not only unattractive to watch but stifles the team's ability to score. How many times this year did the team struggle to kick goals in a game? 5 against Adelaide in Rd 22, four against the Bulldogs with only a handful of mins left on the clock, 6 against Port early on in the season.

Classic case in point was last Saturday where Collingwood seemed to effortlessly get the ball out of their defensive 50 from the kick in whilst we resorted to our usual 15-20 metre chipping that played into Collingwood's hands. How many times this year did we watch St Kilda's backline take the ball from one HB flank to the other and then, unable to proceed, retreat back to whence it began! Ugly, frustrating and ineffective footy. No wonder we struggled to kick goals because we seem content to play keepings off in the back half.

Yet despite playing this terrible ineffective boring football we made two grand finals in a row and very nearly won them but alas we didn't. I agree our bottom few players stood out on Saturday but I don't think we had any one on the list that would have been better. You can't magically have better players.

If you want to watch fast break unaccountable football f*** off and support Essendaon cause that has worked real well for them.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Not sure if "demand" is the word to use, but I don't see any issue with writing to Westaway and letting our feeling be known. Putting a rocket under anyone usually has some effect. It's going to be better than keeping it all in and having it come out in unhealthy ways. If we all wrote to him instead of writing the same things here, we'd probably see much more of a result. And to say it would have "no effect" is rubbish. He knows we're the ones who appoint him, are we not, so he'd sure as s*** listen to us, if he has any sense.
Look how pumped Eddie was on the weekend. Does anyone reckon Westaway would have been that pumped to have won the game? I'd bet that Eddie wanted it more. It was bursting out of him. If we all put a rocket up Westaway, or at least let him know for sure how much we're hurting, maybe he'd start to want it more. And maybe we'd actually get it.
Or we can keep doing the same things we have been and get the same results. Choice is ours.
Do something about it, or do nothing. Choice is ours.