How did collingwood improve so much, so quickly?

[ralphsmith]

I kind of missed it...what did they do that made them so much better than everyone else? In fact i didn't really rate them all year, and thought it inevitable we'd play the cats in the grand. I though it a joke when they drafted Luke Ball it would boost their midfield...Luke Ball...the guy who couldn't kick 20m or keep up with the pace of the game for the saints.

Lets be honest, they could have should have buried us last week. We had no answers to their first quarter goal and attack fest 2 grand finals in a row.

I felt we looked so slow yesterday and the pies were like a wild dog trying to break free of its leash. They were so keen to get to the mark to stop us playing on, they were running to position with immense speed and foresight, the ball was bouncing right, falling right.

They didn't seem to have any fumbly useless hacky players like Mcqualter, Baker, Jones or Eddy, they were full of skillful Farren Ray type equivalents.

They were pumping it forward, instinctively while we were hand balling backwards stupidly, as if we didn't want the ball to go forward. They just push and push forward like mad men, and goals flow.

Their energetic youth and speed seemed unstoppable.

Incredible from the pies.

Where did this improvement come from? And did anyone feel like the pies kind of slipped under our radar completely?

[LaUrEnCe]

It was like midway through the season too

[plugger66]

They didn't seem to have any fumbly useless hacky players like Mcqualter, Baker, Jones or Eddy, they were full of skillful Farren Ray type equivalents.

Like this part. Very positive.

[saintkid]

Who knows what they did to their players behind the scenes in their Arizona trips in the off-season.

[degruch]

Last week was more indicative of where the Pies are honestly at, IMO. I joked yesterday to a couple Pies supporters that it would be sporting for Collingwood to run backwards for the entire quarter, given our poor luck (can't believe the bounce of the ball, again), lousy disposal and ability to stuff everything we did. Nothing would have stopped them, or made them look any better than they did yesterday...it was the perfect Pie storm.

[bigcarl]

Everyone at their club, from the coach down, has been put under pressure to justify their place.

They've given these kids their chance, knowing full well that ... if they didn't take it ... a veteran was waiting in the wings for his shot at redemption.

Guess what? Their kids took the chance.

They are a wonderful side ... quick, agressive, confident ... but just to put what they have achieved in some sort of context, they haven't played away from the MCG since early July. That has got to help.

Sour grapes from me if you like, but that is damning on the AFL and its pretentions to providing a level playing field.

Try telling that to Fremantle, who had their best season in years and didn't get to play at the MCG once during the regular season.

[plugger66]

Everyone at their club, from the coach down, has been put under pressure to justify their place.

They've given these kids their chance, knowing full well that ... if they didn't take it ... a veteran was waiting in the wings for his shot at redemption.

Guess what? Their kids took the chance.

They are a wonderful side ... quick, agressive, confident ... but just to put what they have achieved in some sort of context, they haven't played away from the MCG since early July. That has got to help.

Is it better to have lots of games at the G and travel four times but play more top 8 sides than anyone else compared to playing interstate 6 times but playing less top 8 sides. Pretty even IMO so I think the draw had little to do with their improvement.

[ralphsmith]

They've given these kids their chance, knowing full well that ... if they didn't take it ... a veteran was waiting in the wings for his shot at redemption.

That's exactly right.

Couldn't quite believe Fraser or Medhurst couldn't get a game at the pies. Some kid had eclipsed them and now has a premiership medallion.

Where did they get these kids? Can we do that?!

[Beej]

Everyone at their club, from the coach down, has been put under pressure to justify their place.

They've given these kids their chance, knowing full well that ... if they didn't take it ... a veteran was waiting in the wings for his shot at redemption.

Guess what? Their kids took the chance.

They are a wonderful side ... quick, agressive, confident ... but just to put what they have achieved in some sort of context, they haven't played away from the MCG since early July. That has got to help.

Sour grapes from me if you like, but that is damning on the AFL and its pretentions to providing a level playing field.

Try telling that to Fremantle, who had their best season in years and didn't get to play at the MCG once during the regular season.

I remember before our QF last year people saying that because we hadn't played much at the MCG we would be in trouble against Collingwood.

We were too good for the Pies at the MCG that day.

This year we had played three straight at the MCG before the replay - that's more than enough games to become accustomed to a ground.

[bigcarl]

Is it better to have lots of games at the G and travel four times but play more top 8 sides than anyone else compared to playing interstate 6 times but playing less top 8 sides. Pretty even IMO so I think the draw had little to do with their improvement.

I think that to play the last 12 matches at your home ground is a definite advantage ... if only we had that luxury.

But it doesn't surprise me to hear you again defending the AFL.

All that said, I take nothing away from the Magpies. They are a very good side as you and I have continually pointed out during the season.

[gringo]

Saints footy takes the variables out of the game. Pies footy relies on fortune favours the brave.

Get it move it forward as fast as you can. Back your shots from any player and defend it if it comes back out. Collingwoods poor conversion is because they take 50 meter kicks on angles and know that their forward pressure will restrict the rebound. They then also have a zone that doesn't chase individuals. Just pure zone style defence and if the player in your area comes past you pressure intensely. The mids are told to take a shot if in range.

Saints will chip it around until a best chance is made then shoot. We need to look at playing their game or come up with a strategy other than control it at a slow pace. I think the pies didn't show their hand too early as a strategy, once teams work it out they can counter it. It will be harder next year.

Malthouse has a few strategies that are designed to push the boundaries of spirit of the game too.
Tunnelling, hitting the body hard in every contest, interchange exchanges to confound tags etc. kick in cut off by interchange etc.

We can learn from him, his pressure from being put on death row got him desperate, made him look at the game different. We need to out c%$# the c%$#s.

[bigcarl]

We need to look at playing their game or come up with a strategy other than control it at a slow pace.

Exactly right. We need to move the ball quicker and attack more. Bold, adventurous, risk-taking football.

It might start with defence, but it has to end in goals.

Ross's insistence on defence is admirable and and I'm not saying abandon that ... just make sure we can regularly kick winning scores.

Get the balance right between stopping and creating. Too often we err on the negative side (IMO).

[Beej]

The genius of Collingwood playing the boundary line.

They take risks, but minimise those risks by playing along the boundary line.

When they lose the footy it makes it difficult for teams to get it back in the corridor. Or they easily usher the ball out of play and setup again.

It's quick, cavalier footy without the dangers of playing through the corridor.

[sRaf]

I have not seen a team play with so much confidence in a looong time. They try to take on any opponent whenever given the opportunity and they normally come out on top. Kind of like the Saints of '04

A young team and a bit of confidence can go a long way, as highlighted not only by Collingwood, but Richmond and Melbourne too over the course of the year.

Hawthorn's another example of a young side which played with an enormous amount of self belief. They also showed how quickly it can turn around once that belief is lost, but I can't see that happening to Collingwood. They appear to be a more mature outfit with a great coaching staff behind the scene. Love 'em or hate 'em, you cannot deny that the players share a bond not too many clubs can brag about.

[mad saint guy]

Lockyer, Fraser, Medhurst, Davis, Presti and O'Bree were forced out of the side by Sidebottom, Brown, Reid, Goldsack, Macaffer and Beams. When they recruited experience they got their number one ruckman and a midfielder with the qualities they were lacking.

We needed to have McQualter, Eddy, Koschitzke, Dempster, Baker and Jones forced out by Armitage, Smith, Stanley, Miles, Geary, Simpkin and Lynch. We went and recruited a player with serious mental issues who gets himself sacked before he plays a game and Brett Peake, who just isn't a particularly good player.

[bigcarl]

They try to take on any opponent whenever given the opportunity and they normally come out on top. Kind of like the Saints of '04

I was thinking the same thing.

We got on a bit of a roll with eight of our first 10 games at our home ground.

Some kids came of age, adding to some great seasoned players like Banger, Gehrig, Max, Hamill etc. Didn't equate to a premiership for us, but that's life.

[degruch]

The genius of Collingwood playing the boundary line.

Which plays right into our hands typically, hence a few thumpings from us in recent times. They played very well yesterday, we played exceedingly poorly, hence the difference.

[Beej]

The genius of Collingwood playing the boundary line.

Which plays right into our hands typically, hence a few thumpings from us in recent times. They played very well yesterday, we played exceedingly poorly, hence the difference.

The thumpings were handed out last year to be fair. They're obviously much improved since.

This year you could say that if it weren't for their poor kicking, they would have beaten us all four times.

[oh when]

After we beat them in round 3 - Malthouse said they needed to work on tackling and putting pressure on the player with the ball and this is what they did and improved on.

[degruch]

The genius of Collingwood playing the boundary line.

Which plays right into our hands typically, hence a few thumpings from us in recent times. They played very well yesterday, we played exceedingly poorly, hence the difference.

The thumpings were handed out last year to be fair. They're obviously much improved since.

This year you could say that if it weren't for their poor kicking, they would have beaten us all four times.

Yeah, that's their excuse usually...the fact is they wilt under our pressure, the same way we did yesterday. I'm not about to look at the scoreline and start trotting out 'if we'd kicked straight' as an excuse (I'm not a Pies supporter for a start). We successfully put ourselves under pressure with poor disposal, then finished it off by panicking in front of goal.

[dcstkfc]

An absolutely outstanding effort from Malthouse and the football department.

They have re-built the list whilst still making finals series.

Good recruiting, backing in your kids, excellent game plan, just a credit to them.

They've made the finals 5 years straight and loook like they could make it for another 5. Only 9 players who played yesterday were in the 07 prelim team- a remarkable statistic.

The fact that their side did not contain one of Buckley, Licuria, Clement, Burns, Rocca, Wakelin, O'Bree, Prestigiacomo, Davis, Lockyer, Fraser or Medhurst speaks incredible volumes for their recruiting.

Finally they hit the jackpot by tanking for one year and getting Pendlebury and Thomas- which has worked out wonderfully.

[SaintPav]

They also took a short term hit in 08 when they suspended Didak and Shaw who missed the finals.

Pity they had to have their massive year of improvement this year. We would have beaten anyone else. Last year we faced Geelong on the rebound who peaked during finals and this year we went up against a hugely improved team with a groundbreaking game plan which just came out of the blue.

All the talk about a dynsaty and them taking it out next year means that they won't.

I hate them but I respect them.

[SaintWal]

It really is very simple.

1) Do not put any sort of tag in the centre of the ground. All our mids other than Lenny were intent on minimising the damage of their mids. They back themselves to win the ball! The genious of Malthouse is to roll back to yester year strategy in the middle of the ground.
2) Do not over commit to the contest. It looks great when a filth player was tackled by 2 or 3 of our players but where were their opponents. Outside the huddle in case the ball spilled. How many times was the ball richocheted away to a loose Filth player.
3) Use the tactic of the opposition to your advantage. The full press of the Saints was matched by only a half forward press of the opposition. Result, Saints win ball in congestion and run and spread forward. Easy pick off for up to 5 Pies lined up across the centre line. Result, Quickly fed back in to a scrambling defence caught off guard by a quick turn around.

[dcstkfc]

It really is very simple.

1) Do not put any sort of tag in the centre of the ground. All our mids other than Lenny were intent on minimising the damage of their mids. They back themselves to win the ball! The genious of Malthouse is to roll back to yester year strategy in the middle of the ground.
2) Do not over commit to the contest. It looks great when a filth player was tackled by 2 or 3 of our players but where were their opponents. Outside the huddle in case the ball spilled. How many times was the ball richocheted away to a loose Filth player.
3) Use the tactic of the opposition to your advantage. The full press of the Saints was matched by only a half forward press of the opposition. Result, Saints win ball in congestion and run and spread forward. Easy pick off for up to 5 Pies lined up across the centre line. Result, Quickly fed back in to a scrambling defence caught off guard by a quick turn around.

Amazing analysis.
Well done.

[gringo]

Our game plan won earlier in the year because we push their forward line players wide and along way out with our zone. It means the opposition shoots from a low percentage position.

Collingwood has simply adjusted the amount of pressure they put back on the ball coming out again. They were having 3 behinds before kicking a goal all without it leaving the 50 this year. Low percentage, brave attacking footy.

It freaks the saints out because it isn't what is supposed top happen. It can occasionally fail, but when it comes off it demoralises the opposition.