Impossible to win a GF with current list

[plugger66]

Not because they arent good enough but losing or not winning 3 GF in a row must hve huge mental scaring. How could they possibly come back from that.

[degruch]

Well, I'm hoping there'll be about 6-7 new players up for selection in next year's GF (including guys like Armo and Geary, who were in the running for a spot), so the 2010 'fiasco' mightn't matter so much...bring on Stanley, Walsh, Steven, Smith, Winmar, et al.

[jonesy]

Trade them all then?

We just need some smart tinkering,not an easy thing to do,but not impossible either. Need one or two of the Miles,Stanley,Steven,Winmars to step up,and find something in trade week/draft.

However keeping the squad virtually at 100% as this year,then I agree,we will struggle.

We have probably 3 to many players to carry with shocking disposal under pressure,and we still lack leg speed. If we can adress these problems,then I still think our window is right open.

[saint75]

Interesting thoughts Plugger66. I happen to think the opposite. I think it will provide them with more burning to go again next year.

All depends on your perspective. Next year will show us the answer.

[plugger66]

Trade them all then?

We just need some smart tinkering,not an easy thing to do,but not impossible either. Need one or two of the Miles,Stanley,Steven,Winmars to step up,and find something in trade week/draft.

However keeping the squad virtually at 100% as this year,then I agree,we will struggle.

We have probably 3 to many players to carry with shocking disposal under pressure,and we still lack leg speed. If we can adress these problems,then I still think our window is right open.

Window is well and truely open. Matter of fct I cant possibly see how we will not be top 4 net year but just feel it will just about be impossible to get over the mental scars if we play in the GF next year. Hope to be prove completely wrong.

[saintsRrising]

Each year the 22 has been different.

I expect it will be so again in 2011...and probably more so.

I am expecting a mini-rebuild. This may mean a bit of a dip in 2011, but if so will set us up better for 2012.

Pies have raised the bar, and with the age profile of their list I doubt that Lyon would rely on just minor tinkering. I do not expecta completely radical overhaul either...but yes am expecting significant face changes in 2011 as to whom gets regular games....and with youngters like Winmar (injured most of this year) likely to be given some exposure as well.


For mine part of Minis problem was that in 201l that he had no offensive side...and is not good enough to be used in the midfield rotations. His place should go to Steven/A Smith.

Kosi is too one dimensional fora key forward...and to prone to not playing 4 quarters. Lack ofa replacement kept him in for 2010. Perhaps 2011 needs to bea teaching year for Stanley. may not pay divedends in finals in 2011..but watch out in 2012. walsh..still raw..a smokey too.

[Winmar]

I think our problem is that there doesn't seem be be a Lenny Hayes coming through the ranks. If you look at our emergencies every week theere isn't a great deal to get excited about. Given the lack of talent available to us in the draft I'm hoping for a decent mature age rookie.

I've not seen Winmar at all. Is he in with a sniff?

[SaintTom]

Trade them all then?

We just need some smart tinkering,not an easy thing to do,but not impossible either. Need one or two of the Miles,Stanley,Steven,Winmars to step up,and find something in trade week/draft.

However keeping the squad virtually at 100% as this year,then I agree,we will struggle.

We have probably 3 to many players to carry with shocking disposal under pressure,and we still lack leg speed. If we can adress these problems,then I still think our window is right open.

Window is well and truely open. Matter of fct I cant possibly see how we will not be top 4 net year but just feel it will just about be impossible to get over the mental scars if we play in the GF next year. Hope to be prove completely wrong.

I think how they performed in the draw was testament against that. And with guys like Lenny and BJ in particular, as I honestly see those two as having the most burning desire to win one, leading from the front by example, I think mental scarring will count for little.

[oh when]

Maybe it's the game plan that doesn't work in gfs

[saintsRrising]

[Window is well and truly open. Matter of fact I cant possibly see how we will not be top 4 net year but just feel it will just about be impossible to get over the mental scars if we play in the GF next year. Hope to be prove completely wrong.

Yes we do not want to be a Bulldogs Top 4. next year.

Roo with that easy goal blunder has placed a huge monkey on his back which no matter how well he plays in the H&A, or even early finals, will only be faced and answered if and when we play another GF.

Backline players were a positive. they all played well under enormous pressure.

Too many mids went missing though.....delivering many opportunities to the Pies, and poor entries to our forwards.

Blocking and tunneling our third man up meant that Jolly had free reign over the inexperienced Ben.

Forwards Allowed their opponents to be goal side..meaning tat when we were on the break that we rarely had free player to give the ball to. Gilbert in the second quarter was one of the few.

Roo was simply horrid with his ball-use. Often gave poorly to team-mates and his goal kicking was horrid. Allowing Shaw to smoother a certain goal will haunt him for years...and will be on the highlight reel of all future GF replays.


However having said that we have many of the players we need to be Yop 4. Whether our kids can step up will be a huge part of whether we get to play in another GF again.

Pies will most likely be better in 2011 than 2010, and that is the scary part. So we need to be better not than they were in 2010, but that they will be in 2011.

[bigcarl]

Not because they arent good enough but losing or not winning 3 GF in a row must hve huge mental scaring. How could they possibly come back from that.

This is why we must bring some kids in. No mental baggage and a fresh outlook. The game plan also needs a major overhaul, with the emphasis more towards kicking winning scores.

Speaking of mental scarring, the idea of giving the captaincy to Goddard and relieving Riewoldt of the mental burden of delivering a flag has some merit.

[Stephen Theodore]

Sadly, I agree.

[borderbarry]

saintsRrising is probably right. The Collingwood youngsters will be better off for the experience. They did'nt play their plodders in the finals, whereas we did at the expense of younger players. We have to learn from this.

[dcstkfc]

Interesting thoughts Plugger66. I happen to think the opposite. I think it will provide them with more burning to go again next year.

All depends on your perspective. Next year will show us the answer.

History tells us that a team is MUCH more likely to win a flag the year after losing a Grand Final than when they have lost 2 in consecutive years.

Mental challenge will be huge- Roo, Lenny and BJ must lead from the front.

[Enrico_Misso]

I happen to think the opposite. I think it will provide them with more burning to go again next year.

Just how many grand finals do we need to lose to fire this "burning"?

[meher baba]

I agree with the line of argument that the younger fringe players - Armo, Walsh, Stanley, Miles, McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Smith, Simpkin, Heyne, Lynch and co - are now the key. We should start the season with 5 or 6 of these blokes in our top team. Players like Dempster, Eddy, McQualter, Peake and perhaps even Baker or Jones (or one of them, anyway) and even perhaps Ray should start the year in the VFL and have to prove themselves. We have to stop tolerating poor disposal: players like Eddy and Peake will need to start hitting targets regularly before they are considered again. Jones's poor dsposal was exposed for all to see in both GFs. We tried to use hmm effectively as a substitute for Ball in the middle this year, and it doesn't work. Maybe Ball can't kick over a jam tin, but Jones under pressure can't hit a brick wall by hand or foot. He must play as a tagger pure and simple. If so, then we can't afford to have him, Mini, Baker, Dempster and Eddy all playing together: two of these tagging types is more than enough.

I still have hopes for McQualter: unlike most of the other defensively-minded players, he is an accurate kicker of the ball. But something's been wrong this year: either a chronic injury or an attitudinal problem
or both. Whatever it is, it needs to fixed over the off-season.

I really don't want to see Dempster or Eddy in our top 22 again: if they front up again for Rd 1 2011, then we've got virtually no hope IMO. It will mean that nothing has changed in Ross's thinking and that we aren't going to try to bridge the gap to the Pies by developing some of the pretty reasonable list of hopefuls I've set out above.

And we don't want to trade anyone at all. We need them: if the likes of Dal, Joey, Kosi, Gram, etc. arent good enough, then it's far too late to do anything about it now. They all need to keep playing their roles: it's the bottom 6 or so in our top 22 who we need to improve or replace.

And I really hope Gardi is up for another season. We need him too.

[perfectionist]

Wasn't too impossible eight days ago with a minute to go and a bouncing ball. Perhaps improbable but not impossible.

[dcstkfc]

I agree with the line of argument that the younger fringe players - Armo, Walsh, Stanley, Miles, McEvoy, Steven, Geary, Smith, Simpkin, Heyne, Lynch and co - are now the key. We should start the season with 5 or 6 of these blokes in our top team. Players like Dempster, Eddy, McQualter, Peake and perhaps even Baker or Jones (or one of them, anyway) and even perhaps Ray should start the year in the VFL and have to prove themselves. We have to stop tolerating poor disposal: players like Eddy and Peake will need to start hitting targets regularly before they are considered again. Jones's poor dsposal was exposed for all to see in both GFs. .

Exactly. Plenty of talent there, build from within- model ourselves on the Filth.

Bloody annoying though how they tanked in 05 and got Thomas and Pendlebury.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Nothing's impossible, but it sure as hell makes it extremely difficult. Something has to give, or our "window" closes, for who knows how long.

[Furphy]

Where the hell did Collingwood come from? About three months ago I was hard pressed thinking of four of their players who would get a game with us.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Where the hell did Collingwood come from? About three months ago I was hard pressed thinking of four of their players who would get a game with us.

They largely came from Mick Malthouse

[barks4eva]

Where the hell did Collingwood come from? About three months ago I was hard pressed thinking of four of their players who would get a game with us.

Toovey, McCaffer, Blair, Reid etc...etc... not exactly household names!

Agree, obviously they had the tactics, not the best list but the best prepared!

Which further illustrates the point about our stellar list of 2004/2005, best list in comp but zero tactics and we came undone!

[Winmar7Fan]

Not because they arent good enough but losing or not winning 3 GF in a row must hve huge mental scaring. How could they possibly come back from that.

No your wrong it's because they aren't good enough. Eddy, McQualter, Kosi, Clarke, Armitage, McEvoy, Peake, Dawson are all well and good floating around through the season getting us over the line against lower teams but to stand up against the top one or two in the big one cost us premierships.

Gwilt is the only one that has stepped up to be solid in big games even when the pressure is super hot.

[saintsRrising]

, Dawson are all well and good floating around through the season getting us over the line against lower teams but to stand up against the top one or two in the big one cost us premierships.

.

We must have seena different finals series inclusie of both GF's.


I think Dawson will be better again 2011 after he regains the muscle mass that he lost last summer when he was ill.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

No your wrong it's because they aren't good enough. Eddy, McQualter, Kosi, Clarke, Armitage, McEvoy, Peake, Dawson are all well and good floating around through the season getting us over the line against lower teams but to stand up against the top one or two in the big one cost us premierships.

Dawson was good in both GFs, particularly the first. The whole back six were great, they didn't get any support from the defence up the field in the second GF. Gwilt and Fisher were the standouts.

It's the midfield that was really found wanting in the second GF.