Discussion about the captaincy

[Moccha]

He will be captain. In 3-5 years. Right now we have one of the best 5 players in the game and an inspirational captain in Nick Riewoldt.

Goddard is also in the best 5 players in the game, and seems to be a great leader too. I'm a bit torn on this, I think it would be a good idea to give BJ the captaincy, but Riewoldt is also an exemplary leader, with an exemplary attitude....

Except Riewoldt doesn't have the football smarts or execution of Goddard. Nick forget about running 12 to 14k a game and just continually practice at training at kicking for goal because by god you need to improve in this area if St.Kilda are to take the next step.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Imagine how Roo would feel if that happened.

Don't you see, it's not about Roo. This is not the Nick Riewoldt Football Club, unless I'm greatly mistaken.
It's the St Kilda Football Club and if we're fair dinkum, we have to do what's best for the club. As good as Nick is in that role, I believe Goddard would be better, period. And it doesn't matter if Nick is the best player ever, being the best doesn't mean you're the best captain. Look at Nick Maxwell at Collingwood, Brett Kirk at Sydney, or Tom Harley at Geelong, as examples. None of them are the best performed in their team, but their captaincy is/was outstanding.
He doesn't need this load on his shoulders and I reckon BJ would thrive in it. He is stronger than Nick and doesn't have things like the yips to deal with, like Roo does.
If it happened, Nick would need to take it like a man and get on with the job. It's not all about him and his ego, as some of you seem to think.

[bigcarl]

Right with you there SainterK. I said this exact same thing in a thread a couple of months ago and I'm even more sure of it now. BJ is clearly "the man" when it matters the most. Either him or Hayes, then Roo. This is not taking anything away from Roo, but just because someone's great at footy doesn't mean he should be "captain". He would still be the "poster boy", but it's time to take a load off his shoulders and appoint BJ. I don't believe Nick will lead us to a premiership. He's just had 3 golden opportunities and we have 0.
I've been watching BJ closely since he first arrived at the club and, as I said a couple of months ago, he just had "future captain" written all over him, pretty much right from the start. If we want to win a flag, BJ needs to be named "captain".

Do it. Let Rooey concentrate on playing.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Do it. Let Rooey concentrate on playing.

I believe it would certainly be better for both of them and most importantly for the club, which is what it's supposedly all about.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Well I just read and re-read, and nowhere do I see SainterK bagging Roo, either directly or by inference.
She stated that Roo is a superstar and a gun- which he is. Just expressed an opinion, which you may or may not agree with, that he has a lot on his plate and that perhaps we could look at the possibility of relieving that extra pressure by at least considering the possibility that there might be another suitable candidate for Captaincy in BJ. No harm in expressing that view. You don't have to agree with her: but I think I do for what its worth.

why not mentioned after Round 1

Round 21

after previous 3 finals

ill timed rubbish

How about because this is now the "off season" and that's the time when these decisions are usually made?
Or because we've just seen BJ do his darndest to carry the team over the line in two GF's, while Roo only kicked a couple of goals and had little impact, up against someone who is only young and wasn't even going to play last week, till Presti pulled out?

[Enrico_Misso]

We need a real statement
A line in the sand.

Appointing someone like Goddard is a start.
He deserves it.
He has earnt it.
And he won't let us down.

But we need to make other changes as well.
There are about 10 guys in that side yesterday who need to be managed out of our preferred 22.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Hard to argue with any of that. This group will now have major mental/emotional baggage. It's hard enough to win a flag without all that, but that makes the mountain even harder to climb. We may need a fair sized turnover, or a whole team of psychologists.
I see in the paper today that Sam Mitchell handed over the captaincy to Luke Hodge last night, at the Hawthorn B & F and it's almost certainly time for Roo to follow suit and give ours to BJ. Or have it done for him.

[plugger66]

Is this thread serious?

[saint75]

Not sure how I feel about this one. Having Goddard as captain has it's merits. However, I can't see Roo not being the captain. There has been many a game prior to this year that I have seen him literally pick up this team by scruff of the neck and pull them over the line. Very similar to BJ last week.

I think we need to remember that Roo was not capable of doing that this year due to his injury and that he was still probably not at this best going into these finals. BJ took up Roo's lead and took on the mantle and tried to single handedly drag this team over the line by sheer force of will.

Roo will remain Captain and I think he should. BJ to Vice Captain. Just my opinion of course.

Like to see people think outside the box and a worth post by SainterK.

[Moods]

Is this thread serious?

Was wondering the same thing? Have ppl forgotton just how many finals Roo has single handedly dragged us over the line in the last 2 years? In the 10 finals the saints have played in the last 3 years, Roo has been B.O.G. in 5 of them. Not our teams's best player like BJ was yesterday, but the BEST PLAYER ON THE GROUND! He is more often than not the REASON we win big games. I believe that is because he wills the team to victory. We wouldn't have even been in the GF this year possibly if it wasn't for Roo's 3rd quarter in the prelim.

SainterK I respect your right to an opinion, but it is inadvertently disrespectful to the clubs best player, and poss the most influential player the club has ever had. If I was Roo and the captaincy was taken from me, I would feel like the club was blaming me for not winning the GF. He has been faultless for 3 years as captain, don't panic and reappoint someone else over a GF loss. Sh!t clubs do that.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Not sure how I feel about this one. Having Goddard as captain has it's merits. However, I can't see Roo not being the captain. There has been many a game prior to this year that I have seen him literally pick up this team by scruff of the neck and pull them over the line. Very similar to BJ last week.

I think we need to remember that Roo was not capable of doing that this year due to his injury and that he was still probably not at this best going into these finals. BJ took up Roo's lead and took on the mantle and tried to single handedly drag this team over the line by sheer force of will.

Roo will remain Captain and I think he should. BJ to Vice Captain. Just my opinion of course.

Like to see people think outside the box and a worth post by SainterK.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that Roo hasn't been very good, but it's about what's BEST. For the club and for him and Goddard. Like Mitchell and Hodge at Hawthorn. Mitchell has been damn good, but Hodge just looks to be "the man", now.
Roo has too much on his plate now. Including the baggage of leading his team into 3 grand finals and not winning one. He is also more fragile, like in Adelaide late in the year, when the crowd were getting on his back and he fell to pieces, shanking his shots for goal all over the place. That wouldn't happen to BJ. And surely the team is a reflection of their "leader". With Roo captaining the side, we've pretty much "choked" to lose the 2009 and 2010 grand finals. Opposition sides and fans know he has a weakness and they go for the jugular, like we all heard when he stuffed up in the goalsquare yesterday. They gave it to him, big-time and his head dropped and so did the majority of our side. We never recovered.
Time to say thanks for a great job, now just go and play, rip games to bits. Let BJ do the majority of the leading and the off field stuff.

[Legendary]

Absolute crap.

One average match in a final, and you forget the way he carried us through September in 2009?

Rubbish thread.


He is the best player in the AFL and he is our captain, and will be until he retires.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Absolute crap.

One average match in a final, and you forget the way he carried us through September in 2009?

Rubbish thread.


He is the best player in the AFL and he is our captain, and will be until he retires.

If so, we almost certainly won't win a premiership in that time. But so many seem to accept losing, which would explain perfectly why we don't win premierships. It's a "loser mentality".
Dermott Brereton is spot on about us. He knows exactly what it takes to win premierships and I doubt he'd appoint Riewoldt if he was in charge. I don't think he'd hesitate to name Goddard.

[borderbarry]

I am not sure where I stand on this issue. Thommo may have been on the right track with co-captains.

[saint75]

Absolute crap.

One average match in a final, and you forget the way he carried us through September in 2009?

Rubbish thread.


He is the best player in the AFL and he is our captain, and will be until he retires.

If so, we almost certainly won't win a premiership in that time. But so many seem to accept losing, which would explain perfectly why we don't win premierships. It's a "loser mentality".
Dermott Brereton is spot on about us. He knows exactly what it takes to win premierships and I doubt he'd appoint Riewoldt if he was in charge. I don't think he'd hesitate to name Goddard.

Pulling out Brereton out of a hat is ridiculous. He has not played the game for a very long time and he has no knowledge of the inner sanctum of this club.

Also to compare Hodge/Mitchell to Riewoldt/Goddard is just ridiculous. Riewoldt was injured for the better part of this season. Give the guy a break. He has single handedly dragged this team across the line on more than one occasion. I think many of us were hoping for the impossible for him this week and for his second half of the season in hindsight.

Goddard will get his chance. Just not yet.

In regards to 'loser mentality'. Get a grip. We have won more games than we have lost in the last 2 years. We did not lose this game or last years for that reason. Lot more to it than that and to put it down to that is ridiculous.

Take a deep breath, sit back and watch trade week. That is where my interest lies right now.

[SainterK]

This isn't about Roo's performances on GF day, or that I think he has let the side down in anyway. Or that I have forgotten what he has done, how he taken games by the scruff of the neck, and been a mighty fine leader.

Read my OP, superstar, absolute gun.

I personally don't think it's fair that he shoulders both living up to being the best player in the competition, being the best CHF of the modern era, and 'our only chance at winning a premiership' because it just isn't fair that one guy shoulders all of that.

People have spoken on my behalf in this thread, but my intent was what is best for Nick Riewoldt, and I wasn't thinking about the St Kilda football club at the time.

If what is best for him is to remain captain, great....I am wrong, but don't tell me I don't care about him.

If you can stomach watching any of the replay, just watch his face through the match, I did...I care.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

In regards to 'loser mentality'. Get a grip. We have won more games than we have lost in the last 2 years. We did not lose this game or last years for that reason. Lot more to it than that and to put it down to that is ridiculous.

Take a deep breath, sit back and watch trade week. That is where my interest lies right now.

I have a grip and as I said, this is not something that I just came up with on the back of yesterdays game, I first wrote it over a month ago: http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... highlight=
As I said earlier in the thread, I'm even more certain of it now. As for saying Roo was injured, that was 3 months ago. He didn't look injured in the first final against Geelong, when he kicked their ass early, or against the Bulldogs, yet in the two GF's, against a "kid" who was only brought in at the last minute, he kicked 2 goals, while Goddard virtually carried the team. He showed them who the real "man" was, on the biggest stage. The only one that ultimately matters, if you're playing for a premiership.
As for saying we won more than we lost in the last 2 years, no s***, but we didn't win a premiership, so ultimately, we lost. That's how a "winner" would look at it, but clearly some of us don't, which is the culture that still needs to change, or we won't win a premiership.
As for saying we didn't "lose" the two grand finals, now who's being ridiculous? We "lost them" as much as anyone could in a sporting arena.
As you obviously didn't see them, I'll fill you in. Last year, we were all over Geelong, completely dominating, but butchered chance after chance, from as little as 10m. Yesterday, we again butchered the ball, time after time, after time, when going into the forward line, often under no real immediate pressure and then, when we finally started getting shots at goal, we kicked 1 goal 8 to half time. If those are not "throwing games away"/"losing games", then what the hell is? Sure Collingwood and to a lesser extent Geelong were good, but we handed it to them on a platter.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

This isn't about Roo's performances on GF day, or that I think he has let the side down in anyway. Or that I have forgotten what he has done, how he taken games by the scruff of the neck, and been a mighty fine leader.

Read my OP, superstar, absolute gun.

I personally don't think it's fair that he shoulders both living up to being the best player in the competition, being the best CHF of the modern era, and 'our only chance at winning a premiership' because it just isn't fair that one guy shoulders all of that.

People have spoken on my behalf in this thread, but my intent was what is best for Nick Riewoldt, and I wasn't thinking about the St Kilda football club at the time.

If what is best for him is to remain captain, great....I am wrong, but don't tell me I don't care about him.

If you can stomach watching any of the replay, just watch his face through the match, I did...I care.

Some of them are getting far too emotional about this and that's the sort of thing that costs us. Making decisions on emotion. It's not all about Nick. It's about what's best for the club, and Nick captaining us doesn't look to be it any more.

[SainterK]

This isn't about Roo's performances on GF day, or that I think he has let the side down in anyway. Or that I have forgotten what he has done, how he taken games by the scruff of the neck, and been a mighty fine leader.

Read my OP, superstar, absolute gun.

I personally don't think it's fair that he shoulders both living up to being the best player in the competition, being the best CHF of the modern era, and 'our only chance at winning a premiership' because it just isn't fair that one guy shoulders all of that.

People have spoken on my behalf in this thread, but my intent was what is best for Nick Riewoldt, and I wasn't thinking about the St Kilda football club at the time.

If what is best for him is to remain captain, great....I am wrong, but don't tell me I don't care about him.

If you can stomach watching any of the replay, just watch his face through the match, I did...I care.

Some of them are getting far too emotional about this and that's the sort of thing that costs us. Making decisions on emotion. It's not all about Nick. It's about what's best for the club, and Nick captaining us doesn't look to be it any more.

Sure, that's your take, mine is making sure the players are all in a good place...

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

How is that different from what I'm saying?

[bigcarl]

I personally don't think it's fair that he shoulders both living up to being the best player in the competition, being the best CHF of the modern era, and 'our only chance at winning a premiership' because it just isn't fair that one guy shoulders all of that.

it's a heavy burden, isn't it.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

And will surely be even heavier next year. He doesn't need it and we need him to be as un-burdened as possible.

[Moccha]

Absolute crap.

One average match in a final, and you forget the way he carried us through September in 2009?

Rubbish thread.


He is the best player in the AFL and he is our captain, and will be until he retires.

He's not the best player in the AFL until he can improve his kicking for goal which for the last 3 seasons has been poor.

[Beej]

I'm pretty sure that if we could all read Nick Riewoldt's thoughts, he wouldn't see the captaincy as a burden. He wants nothing more than to lead this club, his club, to a flag.

IMO he's the best captain we've got by a fair margin. He's doing a better job than Lenny or anyone else could ever do.

Because Goddard plays two blinders and thumps his chest whenever he kicks a goal doesn't make him captaincy material nor does it make him more respected by the playing group off the park.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Absolute crap.

One average match in a final, and you forget the way he carried us through September in 2009?

Rubbish thread.


He is the best player in the AFL and he is our captain, and will be until he retires.

He's not the best player in the AFL until he can improve his kicking for goal which for the last 3 seasons has been poor.

And no one forgets what he did in 2009, but it's not 2009 any more and that's not the only reason being put forward for why Goddard is the better option now.
There are a multitude of reasons given here and they're being put forward mainly by those who've been giving it plenty of thought over a fair period of time. Not by those who are reacting emotionally to an idea that has only just been presented to them.